zf_under_lumberyard

[Vladimir Van Vodka]

hello, this thread is here for me to get mapping help, peer review, constructive criticsms and suggestions for my map entitled: "zf_under_lumberyard"

It's a zombie fortress map for the crit sandvich community's fun server, and it's currently in alpha testing.

current ingame map version is: "zf_under_lumberyard_a1_04"

newest map version shall be "zf_under_lumberyard_06"

(alpha, which means no textures and alot of features missing. but it'll get better, with your generous feedback, of course. )

BAD NEWS: after almost releasing a new version, magically all my map entities dissapeared, same with my older backup copy. wich means all that I have now is a basic skelletal geometry version of my map. I tried fixing it, to no avail.

anyways, my map's backstory, (I tried making it cannon with team Fortess 2.) if anybody's interested.

Backstory:
"Damn BLU scum, those filthy cowards. They obviously had other plans, no wonder they retreated and let us take hold! Fighting for and securing Lumberyard was only half the victory... While we where contesting it above ground: They already had something built, but underneath!... Right below the capture point: we have discovered an entrance to a research facility, so to speak. Those sneaky bastards... But then... That raises a further question; Why where they trying to claim Lumberyard in the first place? Well... We know that this facility is very vast. That It's completely self preserved, contained and sufficient. It has also been abandoned for 11 years, most of the things down there have got to be decayed and wrought with years of neglect. Or so the intelligence we captured lately says so. We don't know why they would abandon it then try to reclaim it years later, we think that a fraction of the machinery down there might still work, which may hold old unknown technologies. As we have just re-enabled the life support system remotely: We guess the power was already and somehow always running, certain sectors are still disabled and unhospitable because the life support works half assed- hopefully not like you and your squad! which shall be sent down there immediately to investigate for whatever they where after.
Strange thing is.... Scans indicate irratic movement down there... Which is impossible, it's been sealed for 11 years with no life support. Must be just complex machinery.
Now haul ass! We are heading: Under Lumberyard!"
~Red Soldier

Map Features:
Cannon artstyle and setting, unsettling atmosphere, atmospheric ambient and dynamic music (featuring 3 perfectly synched tracks that get progressively more agressive and intense as the timer counts down.), breakable walls and windows, custom models, custom textures, custom decals, extremely large layout, (running space), lots of little hiding places, anti-turtling measures, balanced gameplay and well optimized gameplay.

CLICK HERE FOR SCREENSHOTS:
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197995246756/screenshots/?tab=public


My map Ideology/theory/concept and goal:
The map is large, made for alot of players. It gives the survivors an option to run or hide or camp, which is real nice because it breaks apart the whole "survivors need to camp in a shitty square room with a single entry" "zombies try and get them and die lamely" "survivors get overrun/survivors turtled successfully" "very boring" rinse repeat dilemma.
Being stealthy and always being on the move in my opinion is actually funner and currently this is one of the very rare maps that allows players to do this.
(other than zf_asylum, which is the map that I used as inspiration for this concept. Try it, it's awesome.)
So to counter perpetual unfair camping, I always add different routes for the zombies, weither they be secret breakable walls, vents, drop downs or obvious paths.
Breakable walls are always a nice addition against strong camping places, as they offer the possibility of (unknown to them: temporary) camping spots for survivors, which they enjoy, but offer zombies a future way to their demise, which they enjoy, and it might force survivors to eventually evacuate and find another new momentary camping spot, which follows my whole "on the move" ideology.


If anybody played the map, I hope you keep in mind that it is alpha, as I am working on adding more map geometry, I cant really elaborate on any new features; as ideas spring off my head.
hell, I changed my mind, I'll add more as I go:

TODO LIST FOR ALPHA 2:
Post screenshots ✔
Add janitor closet light bulb wires
Add lamp models everywhere
Add spectator cameras everywhere
Add toilet model in bathroom
Add breakable stalls
Add machines in office hallway thinger
Collect 11 golden coins to open the gate to the flaming forest of Endarg (must be lvl 56+ mage) 4/11 found
Add a coffee machine somewhere
Add australium in labs
Add spider webs everywhere
Add spiders in jars (yum.)
Add stretcher heavy
Add wheelchair
Add new room in hangar ✔
Add "random" zombie spawns
Create 6 prefab breakable walls 3/6 done
Add certain windows/add more windows
Finish sexying up all the breakable walls ✔
Finish sexying up all breakable windows
Create cryo-chambers sector
Create pit room sector
Connect office hallway thing to cryo chambers
Connect waste plant with terminal hall ✔
Fix the zombies spawn regenerating thing
Find cure to cancer ✔
Remove leak ✔
Fix music that isn't working? (packrat problem?) ✔
Packrat models
Get permission from all respective authors 4/11 obtained
Give credits to all respective authors All already taken note of, not all authors have given custom requests as of yet however.
Eat 14 babies ✔ every damn day.

TODO FOR ALPHA 3:
Finish and finalize geometry with addition of top floor
Add gameplay decals
Add area signs

TODO FOR BETA:
Add complex geometry
Texture the damn thing
Displace to add sexiness
decals/overlays fucking everywhere
Learn to use texture blending and spray that shit everywhere


please try the map before posting suggestions, feedback, constructive criticisms or fellow mapper peer review!

[Vivi Hill]

Just a story of how he got involved with us: He posted on the Zombie Fortress forum post on Sourcemod forums asking for a server which he could use to test the map with a bunch of people. I figured our fun server would be ideal for it.

My opinions on the map so far: Really neat design. Even without textures it looks great, and seems amazingly balanced and fun. Lots of places to explore, and I like the l4d-like idea of not allowing good camping spots. Right now there are just a bunch of test textures, since he's working on the layout first before adding that. Good idea IMO.

I can't really think of any downsides that won't be fixed in new releases. Maybe just that it seems sometimes that zombies spawn too far away from the action, and it can be tricky to find survivors. The beginning of the map seems like it's impossible for zombies to win, but they actually do end up winning, amazingly. It gets very hairy near the end when there are more zombies than survivors.

[Fencerboy]

played the map


the different paths u can take to ambush the survivors are great and the detail in the map is great too

my only suggestion is more arrows pointing where to go
a lot of people got lost

[Vladimir Van Vodka]

played the map
[...] my only suggestion is more arrows pointing where to go
a lot of people got lost.

the problem with this suggestion is that the whole map is supposed to be freeroam, so I can't really make arrows that point to a specific survivor location, as they could be hiding anywhere on the map. Unless you mean arrows or signs that show the players their own current location, like "delta sector", "terminal halls" or "waste processing" and path destinations of the hallways they take, then yes, I will actually do that if I can figure out how to make custom decals or if I can get somebody to make some for me, good Idea and thank you for the feedback, i'll put it on my todo list.

[Fencerboy]

played the map
[...] my only suggestion is more arrows pointing where to go
a lot of people got lost.

the problem with this suggestion is that the whole map is supposed to be freeroam, so I can't really make arrows that point to a specific survivor location, as they could be hiding anywhere on the map. Unless you mean arrows or signs that tell the zombies or survivors their current location, or path destinations of the hallways they take, then yes, I will actually do that if I can figure out how to make custom decals or if I can get somebody to make some for me, good Idea and thank you, i'll put it on my todo list.

sure that would be great too

what i meant was that people were getting lost in like the side halls cause of lack of light or like in the zombies starting point put arrows to exit the spawn

but these are minor things the map is really great in my opinion

[Vivi Hill]

I think the main reason it's confusing is people like to bunch together, naturally, because that way it's easier to defend. And when you spawn as zombies you don't know where everyone is at that moment.

TF2 actually supports silhouetting characters like in L4D. I could likely make a plugin that's an addon to ZF to add this effect (silhouetting for all survivors). It would help the zombies find the players and the players find other players. I suppose if the person doesn't move or crouches it could fade out, like in L4D.

[Smeemo]

Welcome, Vodka! We've been enjoying your creation on the FunBox so far. I was curious about the missing textures, but I hadn't realized the map is a WIP. My first impression is that you've done a good job executing your goal of letting players choose how they want to survive, by running, hiding, or camping. I've only played a few rounds, so no criticism yet.

[Vladimir Van Vodka]

I think the main reason it's confusing is people like to bunch together, naturally, because that way it's easier to defend. And when you spawn as zombies you don't know where everyone is at that moment.

TF2 actually supports silhouetting characters like in L4D. I could likely make a plugin that's an addon to ZF to add this effect (silhouetting for all survivors). It would help the zombies find the players and the players find other players. I suppose if the person doesn't move or crouches it could fade out, like in L4D.

Important: If you are actually willing to do this, I would strongly suggest that the plugin chooses a random survivor for each of the zombies, and that each zombie sees their own single random survivor, that way we solve the problem of zombies not knowing where anybody is, (because then you do know where atleast one person is.) while still keeping somewhat the main intention of my map; being stealth and hiding. Another thing is that as soon as there are enough players on the server, the plugin should automatically disable itself, because when there are 20+ players on the map, there are enough people so that you will inevitably find one really quickly as there is action and chaos everywhere, a decent zombie will just follow the gunfire sounds. And even when there is only one survivor left, since the whole zombie team; 19 players or more, are out to hunt him, he will be found in no time, plus as an added bonus it allows for teamwork, take this example per say:

Randomguy98: "I found him! it's Us Citizens, he killed me but he's running for the rocket room, somebody ambush him!"
Obama: "I'm close by and on it..."



Us Citizens: "NOOOO SHIT SHIT MAN UGH, JESUS."
Obama: "Ahhhh, yesss, I got him..."
Randomguy98: "guys, nice work."
Obama: "Shhhh shhh stop, stop, stop..."
Randomguy98: "wait, what?... why?"
Obama: "you had me at guys..."

[...]
what i meant was that people were getting lost in like the side halls cause of lack of light or like in the zombies starting point put arrows to exit the spawn
[...]

sorry for not replying before, but what do you mean by "in the zombies starting point put arrows to exit the spawn", I find this odd because I already have large blue arrows signs in the zombie spawn that points to the barricaded exit.
Unless... I think that zf_under_lumberyard_a1_04 is very old and redundant, it might be missing things. I don't keep track of what old versions have and have not. I'm just hoping it's missing the arrow decals, and not that they don't work, or even worst. Players don't notice them or they are too obscure.

Also, what halls where too obscure? where the whole rooms pitch black or was it only partially black? because I frankly made sure that every single room had darkness, and that every single room had a visible lightsource at atleast one angle, so you can't get lost spacially unless the player is completely unvigilent.