U.S. Flag Shirt Incident

[singe]

Here's the run down:

Back in 2009, a group of mexican kids in a North Carolinian high school celebrated the holiday Cinco de Mayo by waving around flags around the school. Then a bunch of white kids brought in a makeshift american flag and chanted "U.S.A." in front of the mexican kids. Eventually things got so charged that profanity was used and threats were made.

Fast forward to 2010, same bunch of white kids want to wear the american flag on their shirts to school. This time, though, the school administration forces the kids to remove their shirts. Course, after this, the kids sue the school and a lawsuit is started.

Quite recently, the lawsuit was rejected.

Thoughts? Constitutional or Unconstitutional?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -Mayo.html
http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/18/opinion/n ... ?hpt=ju_c2

[Nikki Wolf]

Whether it's considered off-topic or not is something else, but my high school actually had the Mexican flag up on Cinco de Mayo back in my junior year. (2009-2010) Next day, a bunch of typical rednecks put the rebel flag on the flagpole and managed to get it stuck, so air support was called in to remove it. Entire school lost break and we were pretty much forced to watch a video about racism. Sorry, but this kinda feels like pure coincidence. (and yes, I live in NC)

[singe]

Woah,that's pretty damn close to the case being told here. The school's called Live Oak High School if I remember correctly. Familiar?

[Harri]

First- Cinco de Mayo isn't that big of a holiday as say Día de la Independencia de México (16 de Septiembre). It angers me when Americans use it as a false way of showing some silly attempt at 'not being racist.' Let us all be honest here- who actually knows what Cinco de Mayo celebrates?

Second- That lawsuit should have been thrown out. But, in the same breath, I'll say that no one should have had a national flag present. School is for school. They should restrain the nationalism to the American History class and the Hispanic Cultural class.

Third- Hi guys!

[duck]

cinco de mayo (may 5th i think) is an american holiday (:O) that celebrates mexican heritage (thank 8th grade spanish class for that)

[Harri]

Not completely.


Wiki will do nicely for this-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinco_de_Mayo


Still, I don't celebrate it. I'm not very fond of the "let us get drunk day." I don't see how that is celebrating anything. The same goes for 4th of July. Makes no fucking sense.

[Techercizer]

Still, I don't celebrate it. I'm not very fond of the "let us get drunk day." I don't see how that is celebrating anything. The same goes for 4th of July. Makes no fucking sense.

[Harri]

How charming.

Let us continue on with the "serious conversation."

[cloud]

I have no idea why the school made such a large deal over wearing these shirts. People in my school wear shirts with the italian flag and also say the phrase "italia." People also wear shirts with mexican flags, canadian flags, russian flags, and of course, american flags. I could continue but the list is so long posting it would take a very long time. My point is that the only reason they could have gotten in trouble for wearing the shirts is that they could have been flaunting it to the hispanic students, thus getting them into trouble with the administrators. I don't see anything wrong with wearing a shirt with your country's flag on it, but waving around the flag my be a bit out of line. I have nothing against people showing nationalism for their own country, as long as it can be controlled. When it gets out of hand it could cause gang wars and race vs. race fights. I know most of this from past experience and it can be extremly frusturating to see others fighting over something that has literally no point. Maybe this is just me, but i don't think so.

[Harri]

I personally don't think any religious or national or ethnic symbols should be allowed in schools. (Unless it is a private school) I think all of that detracts from their learning. I say this because those items, symbols etc,. create divisions in students.

Ex. We have John wearing a shirt with the confederate flag. He is making an obvious division between himself and his other classmates. I'm sure it's from some pride of heritage ( ) But, it says something about him that may not necessarily be true. Why add to stereotypes? Students can interact and learn about each other first, without any wayward signs showing who they think they are.

But you see- I'm all for school uniforms. I came from a Catholic school (dominantly hispanic/latino). I moved here, to a public school, and we got to wear what we wanted. It was gross. Students shouldn't be allowed such freedom.

[Maringue]

First, it's a pretty well established fact that there is no freedom of speech (especially when it comes to clothing) in schools. Other than that, this all stems from the fact that the school couldn't just tell a bunch of the students that they were racists or at the very least anti-immigrant.

You should be able to wear any flag you want, but the school should also be able to punish your ass for being a dumb redneck and inciting a fight.

Oh, and Cinco de Mayo is a very regional holiday in Mexico. Kind of like Casimir Pulaski day is a holiday in the Chicago area, but most people have no idea why. People from outside of Chicago don't even know what the fuck you're talking about when you get that day off of school. Just in case you wanted to know, Casimir Pulaski saved our asses in the Revolutionary War by training/creating our cavalry and saving George Washington's life.

I collaborate with a Mexican scientist and he always loved this scene about Cinco de Mayo:

[Ackybur]

People always get mad when I wear my flag to school...

[Spyder]

Wearing Flag shirts in school is fine. Inciting arguments, threats, and violence is not tolerated in school, as it is mistreatment of peers and other shit relating to it.

The law suit the gang filed against the school was thrown out and will remain in the "Bullshit Lawsuits" garbage bin. The kids are making this rhetorical claim that the school is oppressing American pride and nationalism to all students. No, the gang of kids responsible for the fiasco were told to get rid of their flag shirts. Since they were the inciters, the school was probably concerned that they would spark another debacle by wearing their shirts. What the school board says goes, and if the kids don't like it, they should have their parents find a new school District.

School is for school.

Not particularly.

School has been implicated within society to give education, I'm not arguing that. However, if that is its sole purpose, then kids would grow up to be drones.

The social aspect of school is probably more influential in a kid's life, and experiences (both good and bad) will be remembered more vividly than what they learn in the classroom. The social aspect of school is pivotal for shaping a kid's conscious, what he/she deems right or wrong, decision making, etc.

They should restrain the nationalism to the American History class and the Hispanic Cultural class.

American History class is not meant to teach nationalism. It is meant to teach American History.

(For a moment, let's disregard the fact that a lot of schools do this already.) If nationalism is taught in all schools, then American History teachers/professors would most likely say that America has never been wrong, it has never made any bad decisions (except electing Barack Obama, the socialist fascist communist covert Al-Qaeda agent who doesn't have a birth certificate.) the country is the supposed to be the empire of Earth and the last, best hope for humanity.

Nationalism is perfectly fine. Starting fights over it in school isn't. That's the marginal difference.

[Harri]

Kids can have all of those wonderful experiences from school with or without a dress code. I personally think a dress code joined with a strict list of items allowed on campus should be enforced in all schools. No flags.

Isn't is disgraceful to wear a flag? I was taught that wearing a replication of a flag was disrespectful to the flag. I wasn't even allowed to wave around a little Chilean flag at a Fiestas Patrias parade because my father thought it was rude.

[duck]

I personally think a dress code joined with a strict list of items allowed on campus should be enforced in all schools.

i disagree. clothing give kids the right to express themselves, though coming to school naked or having clothing with advertising alcohol or drugs should be wrong, but that is normally enforced

[singe]

Yeah, this area of law is kind of grey. I mean, wearing clothes you want is (mostly) okay in (most) schools, but if you wear clothes against the dressing policy or wear clothes that promote drugs/killing/Nazis then the you will obviously get busted for it. Then again though, once you are out of school, you can offend as many people as you want with as offensive as you want clothing with much less repercussions. (See Westboro Baptist Church)

I guess what I'm trying to say is this: What makes school different from real society?

[Chocolate Love God]

I went to a public school, and one of the rules was "no hats". I remember asking one of the older teachers there why, and their answer was that it was too provocative, and that at a point gangs had been using hats as a means to find people easier in the crowds.

For example, there was a gang that wore mostly cowboy hats and they attacked minorities, in response, anyone wearing a cowboy hat was attacked in the hallway, and they were pretty damn easy to pick out of a crowd. The school ultimately banned all hats, as to avoid such problems again.

The point of my little story is that wearing the flag shirts on cinco de mayo was pretty provocative, and so was chanting USA. So it seems the school banned the wear of flags in general to avoid it getting out of hand.

On the other hand, I can see where the opposition is coming from. It's our flag, and I really think that as Americans, we value our colors more than most of (if not the most) of the world. So it seems unpatriotic and that it violates the first amendment. Thing is, you really don't have the first Amendment in schools, and that I think child safety is more important than patriotism. The only people that should get hurt over that flag are the ones that sign up for it. Myself included.