Amendment 26?

[duck]

Voters in missippi will be faced to vote for this new constitution amendment, the new amendment encloses that human fetuses will be considered human beings, therefore they may not be aborted. im looking for your guys' opinion on the topic.

i, myself, dont know what to think of this. i mean i know what they are trying to do, get rid of fetus killing, but i mean look at the teen pregnancy rates. a 15 year old girl who gets pregnant probably can't afford a child, they usually have to drop out of school and she will struggle for the rest of her life because she never graduated high school. the child wont be healthy because the girls body hasn't fully matured. so am i for the movement, no, but i see what they are getting at

[Guy]

To be honost, only people who should really have a say these kinda matters are... you guessed it... women.
I can't rap my mind around a man trying to tell a woman what do with her body... this isn't a theocracy or dark ages.

To be honost abortions, imo, are situational. These people who want the baby to live, at the expense to the mother, yet don't want to support the baby then mock her for trying to get help with welfare.
Normal everyday women, go threw a lot, when they don't want a child. You could say hey, practice birth control!
But you got the bible nuts (and any other reglionut) and the Abstinence crowd teaching nothing of self protection, birth control, or proper sexual education.... just saying Just say no... to SEX! or God thinks sex is dirty... but he lubz childernenz. ect.

What about rape victims? Or a woman that will easly die while trying to develop and/or deliver the baby?

I am a little uneasy about the paris hiltons of the world with a platnum membership pass to a planning clinic... but again, I am not a woman... and imo, have no say in the whole thing.

My only thought about abortion that shouldn't be allowed is if the father really wants the child, and will even take over the child when it is born. Woman doesn't like said man, and has abortion reguardless of his feelings. Doesn't seem right to me... buutttt.. I am not a heterosexual, so I really don't have a say in this either.

Abstinence can be very unhealthy, mainly cause they even say masterbation is bad too. (Yes, I think women masterbate too... I think.)
Can cause a lot of mental problems. Sex is actually a need and not want, masterbation feels the need. Denying your needs usually ends pretty badly... see: hunger, thurst, comfort, sleep, and stress relief.

tl;dr... if you're not a woman, you just need to get you and your magic book, out of thier biz.

[Failhorse]

States that teach abstinence in school have the highest rates of teen pregnancy. States that give condoms to high school kids have the lowest rate.

[HibiscusKazeneko]

To be honost, only people who should really have a say these kinda matters are... you guessed it... women.
I can't rap my mind around a man trying to tell a woman what do with her body... this isn't a theocracy or dark ages.

Here in the Bible Belt, it pretty much is a theocracy.

To be honost abortions, imo, are situational. These people who want the baby to live, at the expense to the mother, yet don't want to support the baby then mock her for trying to get help with welfare.

Exactly. What's the point of saving a child that would have otherwise have been aborted if it's just going to leach off the taxpayers' money?

Normal everyday women, go threw a lot, when they don't want a child. You could say hey, practice birth control!
But you got the bible nuts (and any other reglionut) and the Abstinence crowd teaching nothing of self protection, birth control, or proper sexual education.... just saying Just say no... to SEX! or God thinks sex is dirty... but he lubz childernenz. ect.

He loves them, all right.
He love them long time.


Also I forgot to mention, one interpretation of this amendment would be that ALL birth control is now illegal. Anything that blocks the sperm from getting to the egg, vice versa, or prevents the fertilized egg from sticking to the uterine lining is now deemed an abortion.

What about rape victims? Or a woman that will easly die while trying to develop and/or deliver the baby?

That's where this amendment gets scary; they EXPLICITLY stated that cases of rape, incest or life-threatening pregnancies are not exempt.

I am a little uneasy about the paris hiltons of the world with a platnum membership pass to a planning clinic... but again, I am not a woman... and imo, have no say in the whole thing.

Those are highly rare and extreme scenarios. What you're more likely to find are poor women who can't afford to care for a child.

My only thought about abortion that shouldn't be allowed is if the father really wants the child, and will even take over the child when it is born. Woman doesn't like said man, and has abortion reguardless of his feelings. Doesn't seem right to me... buutttt.. I am not a heterosexual, so I really don't have a say in this either.

Again, that's another hairy situation. There are countless documented cases where one parent had something done to a child that the other parent didn't want just to get back at the other parent, and usually the courts let the first parent get away with it. Judicial opinions vary.

Abstinence can be very unhealthy, mainly cause they even say masterbation is bad too. (Yes, I think women masterbate too... I think.)
Can cause a lot of mental problems. Sex is actually a need and not want, masterbation feels the need. Denying your needs usually ends pretty badly... see: hunger, thurst, comfort, sleep, and stress relief.

Very true.

Anyone remember this video?

It should also be noted that non-religious circumcision became common practice in this country was to punish boys (and girls) for masturbating.

tl;dr... if you're not a woman, you just need to get you and your magic book, out of thier biz.

Precisely.
But of course, the Bible says we're not equal to men...

This thread (and the amendment being discussed) in a nutshell:

[stanley]

Voters in missippi will be faced to vote for this new constitution amendment,

im confused, is this a state amendment? one state cant change the constitution by itself

[Maringue]

First Mississippi is trying to retain its title as "the safest state to be an unborn child." Unfortunately once that child is born they don't give a fuck. They have the highest infant mortality rate in the country.

Secondly, this law will never, I repeat, NEVER be allowed even if the pass it. They want to have embryos declared people. Unfortunately they are not because they can't own property, vote, or do all of that other people shit. Secondly, the Supreme Court has routinely held that abortion laws that do not have exceptions for the health of the mother are unconstitutional.

Basically, Mississippi is trying to reassure the rest of the states that it is indeed the dumbest and most backward state in the union.

[Maringue]

Voters in missippi will be faced to vote for this new constitution amendment,

im confused, is this a state amendment? one state cant change the constitution by itself

It's an amendment to the state's constitution. Somehow they think that by making it a state constitutional amendment they won't get bitch slapped by every court in the country, which they are going to be.

[stanley]

Voters in missippi will be faced to vote for this new constitution amendment,

im confused, is this a state amendment? one state cant change the constitution by itself

It's an amendment to the state's constitution. Somehow they think that by making it a state constitutional amendment they won't get bitch slapped by every court in the country, which they are going to be.

thats what i though, thanks

[WHAMbulance]

I fully back Guy with the fact it's a woman's choice, which should be decided on by woman.

On the whole "a fetus being a person topic", a fetus is not a person IMO. Until that baby has taken a lungful of grimy, earth-bourne air, they aren't a person.
While you can make the argument, "What if this baby was the cure for cancer?" well, what if I grew wings and started pooping unicorns?
How about focusing on aiding the population you have, not trying to increase it.

[HibiscusKazeneko]

First Mississippi is trying to retain its title as "the safest state to be an unborn child." Unfortunately once that child is born they don't give a fuck.

Slightly off-topic, but this is true for the whole nation, not just Mississippi. As soon as a baby is born in the United States, it has its heels pricked with a needle, antibiotic gunk smeared in its eyes, its stomach pumped full of cow's milk and high-fructose corn syrup, poisons injected into its bloodstream and the most sensitive tissues in its body lopped off with no anesthetic. I find it beyond hypocritical to say that unborn children have rights, but born children do not. (The Supreme Court reinforced this last part in 1977 with the infamous Ingraham v. Wright decision.)

Secondly, this law will never, I repeat, NEVER be allowed even if the pass it. They want to have embryos declared people. Unfortunately they are not because they can't own property, vote, or do all of that other people shit. Secondly, the Supreme Court has routinely held that abortion laws that do not have exceptions for the health of the mother are unconstitutional.

True, but even if the amendment is overruled the fact that it ever passed in the first place will serve as both a badge of honor for the hyper-Christian Conservatives who worked to create and push the amendment and a mark of shame on our nation's history.

Basically, Mississippi is trying to reassure the rest of the states that it is indeed the dumbest and most backward state in the union.

And I am not surprised in the least, considering the amassment of retards that seem to come from there.

It should duly be noted that similar laws got pushed through the system and passed in two other states over the past few years. Last year, the Utah state legislature passed a bill that declared miscarriage to be a form of negligent homicide. Fortunately the governor vetoed it before the law went into effect. Supposedly a law akin to Amendment 26 was pushed and passed in Alabama but removed by federal court order; I haven't found much information on this.

On the whole "a fetus being a person topic", a fetus is not a person IMO. Until that baby has taken a lungful of grimy, earth-bourne air, they aren't a person.

Right. A fetus can't survive outside its mother's body or do anything for itself. It shouldn't be expected to perform as a member of society unless it's born.

While you can make the argument, "What if this baby was the cure for cancer?" well, what if I grew wings and started pooping unicorns?
How about focusing on aiding the population you have, not trying to increase it.

This. Especially with all the hullabaloo about overpopulation and high poverty rates.
Let's keep abortion voluntary before Bill Gates decides to make it mandatory, shall we?

[Ackybur]

Giving my personal opinion here: I think it's a ridiculous law. I can say right now if I was to get pregnant I'd abort it. I'm in a place in my life where it's going on the right track and a baby would ruin everything. The costs, damage and attention it needs is too much too soon. If it was made into an amendment I can promise there would be a lot more "stairs" incidents.

[HibiscusKazeneko]

Giving my personal opinion here: I think it's a ridiculous law. I can say right now if I was to get pregnant I'd abort it. I'm in a place in my life where it's going on the right track and a baby would ruin everything. The costs, damage and attention it needs is too much too soon. If it was made into an amendment I can promise there would be a lot more "stairs" incidents.

What do you mean by "stairs"?
If it means what I think it means, I can guarantee you that that won't work.
If you miscarry, I can guarantee that there'll be a criminal investigation into whether or not you purposefully tried to terminate the pregnancy. That's why Utah passed that law criminalizing miscarriage (though the flip side was too obvious to ignore).

[Ackybur]

Giving my personal opinion here: I think it's a ridiculous law. I can say right now if I was to get pregnant I'd abort it. I'm in a place in my life where it's going on the right track and a baby would ruin everything. The costs, damage and attention it needs is too much too soon. If it was made into an amendment I can promise there would be a lot more "stairs" incidents.

What do you mean by "stairs"?
If it means what I think it means, I can guarantee you that that won't work.
If you miscarry, I can guarantee that there'll be a criminal investigation into whether or not you purposefully tried to terminate the pregnancy. That's why Utah passed that law criminalizing miscarriage (though the flip side was too obvious to ignore).

Well, there is a difference between an accident and on purpose. I do know of the law where you can't force a miscarriage.. But who are they to say the shoe at the top of the stairs wasn't what caused it? It's just an example of the extremes people will go to.

[Guy]

If any of you have (or are planning to have kids at sometime in your life) do them a favor.

No matter what your religion or options on things... be forward with your kids. Even while young, kids know more than they usually let on.

Teach them about the basic functions of sex, when they are young. Go get that movie: "The Miracle of Life."
Go over how a baby is made, the differences between males and females bodies and machanics.
1) Don't tell them it is dirty, shameful, useless act. Doing this makes them feel shameful about thier bodies.
2) Tell them it is a pleasurable, normal, fullfilling act... of love. Tell them don't not to be ashamed of thier bodies, that they are beautiful.
While teaching them about sexually aggessive acts, and how to protect themselves from them while they are children. How they are dangerous and can damage thier bodies or make them sick. Tell them if anyone ever tries to hurt them tell them to tell you asap, and you will love and protect them no matter what. If you go with saying that sex is shameful, chances are your child's guilt will be multiplied and won't think you will believe them.

When they get to preteen-early teenage years you need to teach them about self protection, and birth control.
The different types of STDs and other ailments that can be caught during light makeout-heavy petting sessions.
Tell them that masterbation is normal, healthy, and that you would rather them do that instead of having sex at thier age.
Don't be a fool and think your teen won't make attempts at having sex.

Teach them about how that with great pleasure comes great responsibility. That they must practice safe sex, how to check thier partner for STDs, and to make sure that they arn't pressured into having sex in the 1st place. (Yes, guys can be pressured into sex.)

Tell your daughters about the types of birth controls, go over the risks of taking birth control pills, and most of all if she gets pregnant that you will be there for her, and will support her decisions... and that she will have to grow up and be a woman.

Tell your sons about the types of birth controls, how to properly take care of a condom, how to put it on and how to take it off away from a female after he is finished. To wear a condom even if a woman says she is on birth control, as a way to protect himself from possible STDs and accidental pregnancy. Tell him if he gets a woman pregnant that he much grow up and do what is right, that he has to be there and support her with her decisions. You must let him know you will be there for him as well.

I am just babbling on here, but I think the world would be a better place if people were more open about this.

I have no idea what your feelings are about sexual attraction, but remember when did you make the choice to what sex your attacted too?

Well I am off to play with my Sims.

[stanley]

If any of you have (or are planning to have kids at sometime in your life) do them a favor.

No matter what your religion or options on things... be forward with your kids. Even while young, kids know more than they usually let on.

Teach them about the basic functions of sex, when they are young. Go get that movie: "The Miracle of Life."
Go over how a baby is made, the differences between males and females bodies and machanics.
1) Don't tell them it is dirty, shameful, useless act. Doing this makes them feel shameful about thier bodies.
2) Tell them it is a pleasurable, normal, fullfilling act... of love. Tell them don't not to be ashamed of thier bodies, that they are beautiful.
While teaching them about sexually aggessive acts, and how to protect themselves from them while they are children. How they are dangerous and can damage thier bodies or make them sick. Tell them if anyone ever tries to hurt them tell them to tell you asap, and you will love and protect them no matter what. If you go with saying that sex is shameful, chances are your child's guilt will be multiplied and won't think you will believe them.

When they get to preteen-early teenage years you need to teach them about self protection, and birth control.
The different types of STDs and other ailments that can be caught during light makeout-heavy petting sessions.
Tell them that masterbation is normal, healthy, and that you would rather them do that instead of having sex at thier age.
Don't be a fool and think your teen won't make attempts at having sex.

Teach them about how that with great pleasure comes great responsibility. That they must practice safe sex, how to check thier partner for STDs, and to make sure that they arn't pressured into having sex in the 1st place. (Yes, guys can be pressured into sex.)

Tell your daughters about the types of birth controls, go over the risks of taking birth control pills, and most of all if she gets pregnant that you will be there for her, and will support her decisions... and that she will have to grow up and be a woman.

Tell your sons about the types of birth controls, how to properly take care of a condom, how to put it on and how to take it off away from a female after he is finished. To wear a condom even if a woman says she is on birth control, as a way to protect himself from possible STDs and accidental pregnancy. Tell him if he gets a woman pregnant that he much grow up and do what is right, that he has to be there and support her with her decisions. You must let him know you will be there for him as well.

I am just babbling on here, but I think the world would be a better place if people were more open about this.

I have no idea what your feelings are about sexual attraction, but remember when did you make the choice to what sex your attacted too?

Well I am off to play with my Sims.

thank you for the advice guy, i dont know what i would do without you

[HibiscusKazeneko]

If any of you have (or are planning to have kids at sometime in your life) do them a favor.

No matter what your religion or options on things... be forward with your kids. Even while young, kids know more than they usually let on.

Teach them about the basic functions of sex, when they are young. Go get that movie: "The Miracle of Life."
Go over how a baby is made, the differences between males and females bodies and machanics.
1) Don't tell them it is dirty, shameful, useless act. Doing this makes them feel shameful about thier bodies.
2) Tell them it is a pleasurable, normal, fullfilling act... of love. Tell them don't not to be ashamed of thier bodies, that they are beautiful.
While teaching them about sexually aggessive acts, and how to protect themselves from them while they are children. How they are dangerous and can damage thier bodies or make them sick. Tell them if anyone ever tries to hurt them tell them to tell you asap, and you will love and protect them no matter what. If you go with saying that sex is shameful, chances are your child's guilt will be multiplied and won't think you will believe them.

When they get to preteen-early teenage years you need to teach them about self protection, and birth control.
The different types of STDs and other ailments that can be caught during light makeout-heavy petting sessions.
Tell them that masterbation is normal, healthy, and that you would rather them do that instead of having sex at thier age.
Don't be a fool and think your teen won't make attempts at having sex.

Teach them about how that with great pleasure comes great responsibility. That they must practice safe sex, how to check thier partner for STDs, and to make sure that they arn't pressured into having sex in the 1st place. (Yes, guys can be pressured into sex.)

Tell your daughters about the types of birth controls, go over the risks of taking birth control pills, and most of all if she gets pregnant that you will be there for her, and will support her decisions... and that she will have to grow up and be a woman.

Tell your sons about the types of birth controls, how to properly take care of a condom, how to put it on and how to take it off away from a female after he is finished. To wear a condom even if a woman says she is on birth control, as a way to protect himself from possible STDs and accidental pregnancy. Tell him if he gets a woman pregnant that he much grow up and do what is right, that he has to be there and support her with her decisions. You must let him know you will be there for him as well.

I am just babbling on here, but I think the world would be a better place if people were more open about this.

I have no idea what your feelings are about sexual attraction, but remember when did you make the choice to what sex your attacted too?

Well I am off to play with my Sims.

I couldn't have set it any better.

[mrpikmin2]

If any of you have (or are planning to have kids at sometime in your life) do them a favor.

No matter what your religion or options on things... be forward with your kids. Even while young, kids know more than they usually let on.

Teach them about the basic functions of sex, when they are young. Go get that movie: "The Miracle of Life."
Go over how a baby is made, the differences between males and females bodies and machanics.
1) Don't tell them it is dirty, shameful, useless act. Doing this makes them feel shameful about thier bodies.
2) Tell them it is a pleasurable, normal, fullfilling act... of love. Tell them don't not to be ashamed of thier bodies, that they are beautiful.
While teaching them about sexually aggessive acts, and how to protect themselves from them while they are children. How they are dangerous and can damage thier bodies or make them sick. Tell them if anyone ever tries to hurt them tell them to tell you asap, and you will love and protect them no matter what. If you go with saying that sex is shameful, chances are your child's guilt will be multiplied and won't think you will believe them.

When they get to preteen-early teenage years you need to teach them about self protection, and birth control.
The different types of STDs and other ailments that can be caught during light makeout-heavy petting sessions.
Tell them that masterbation is normal, healthy, and that you would rather them do that instead of having sex at thier age.
Don't be a fool and think your teen won't make attempts at having sex.

Teach them about how that with great pleasure comes great responsibility. That they must practice safe sex, how to check thier partner for STDs, and to make sure that they arn't pressured into having sex in the 1st place. (Yes, guys can be pressured into sex.)

Tell your daughters about the types of birth controls, go over the risks of taking birth control pills, and most of all if she gets pregnant that you will be there for her, and will support her decisions... and that she will have to grow up and be a woman.

Tell your sons about the types of birth controls, how to properly take care of a condom, how to put it on and how to take it off away from a female after he is finished. To wear a condom even if a woman says she is on birth control, as a way to protect himself from possible STDs and accidental pregnancy. Tell him if he gets a woman pregnant that he much grow up and do what is right, that he has to be there and support her with her decisions. You must let him know you will be there for him as well.

I am just babbling on here, but I think the world would be a better place if people were more open about this.

I have no idea what your feelings are about sexual attraction, but remember when did you make the choice to what sex your attacted too?

Well I am off to play with my Sims.

I live in one of those crazy states that teaches you this in school! THE BLASPHEMY!

[Guy]

So take it somewhere not in the south?

[Spyder]

We had a homicide here in Wisconsin regarding a fetus a few weeks ago.

In Milwaukee, this Crazy Bitch in her late 20's (I think) had a boyfriend. Her boyfriend wanted a child.

So, one day, Crazy Bitch sees this younger, pregnant woman in her early 20's walking down the street. Crazy Bitch offers her a ride and they start small talk. The younger woman told Crazy Bitch that she was expecting to give birth soon.

After a while, the younger woman told Crazy Bitch that she had to use the bathroom. Crazy Bitch offered her to use the bathroom in her house. (See where this is going?)

Well, the younger woman agrees, goes into the house, and uses the bathroom. When she comes out, Crazy Bitch bludgeons her to the brink of death. After watching a few documentaries on National Geographic, Crazy Bitch decided to cut open the younger woman to retrieve her fetus. After that, she took the younger woman's corpse into the basement and mutilated her. So, Crazy Bitch calls her boyfriend and tells her she finally gave birth to a child. The boyfriend comes over, unaware of what she did, and took a picture of himself holding the fetus.

Obviously, since the fetus was not prepared to face the outside world yet, it starts dying. Crazy Bitch calls 911, insisting that "Her baby was dying.". When the police arrive, they find a room covered in blood, a bloody woman and a dead fetus. The paramedics immediately state, "That isn't your child.". They found the remains of the younger woman, and, of course, arrested Crazy Bitch.

Now, the deputies counted two murders - the fetus, and the young woman. The police department, however, ultimately released that there was only one death. Their ideology was if you didn't have a birth certificate, then you could never get a death certificate. Technically, you don't exist.
__

Anyway, being a Lutheran, I guess I could say I'm against abortion within reason. However, I couldn't care less if abortion was legalized or not.

[HibiscusKazeneko]

Well, there is a difference between an accident and on purpose. I do know of the law where you can't force a miscarriage.. But who are they to say the shoe at the top of the stairs wasn't what caused it? It's just an example of the extremes people will go to.

They don't care whether it's an accident or not; the law assumes that if a woman miscarries, she deliberately did something to the baby for it to die. Most women miscarry because of medical issues, not because they tried to perform a DIY abortion. This law would have put already grieving mothers through a second world of hurt by treating them like murderers even though they did nothing wrong.

[Ackybur]

Well, there is a difference between an accident and on purpose. I do know of the law where you can't force a miscarriage.. But who are they to say the shoe at the top of the stairs wasn't what caused it? It's just an example of the extremes people will go to.

They don't care whether it's an accident or not; the law assumes that if a woman miscarries, she deliberately did something to the baby for it to die. Most women miscarry because of medical issues, not because they tried to perform a DIY abortion. This law would have put already grieving mothers through a second world of hurt by treating them like murderers even though they did nothing wrong.

Again, you're wrong. I have a friend who miscarried a year ago and it wasn't medical, it was an abusive boyfriend. Nothing police related came into it and yes she did go to a hospital where if something was suspicious they have to report it. Just thought you'd like to know.

[HibiscusKazeneko]

Well, there is a difference between an accident and on purpose. I do know of the law where you can't force a miscarriage.. But who are they to say the shoe at the top of the stairs wasn't what caused it? It's just an example of the extremes people will go to.

They don't care whether it's an accident or not; the law assumes that if a woman miscarries, she deliberately did something to the baby for it to die. Most women miscarry because of medical issues, not because they tried to perform a DIY abortion. This law would have put already grieving mothers through a second world of hurt by treating them like murderers even though they did nothing wrong.

Again, you're wrong. I have a friend who miscarried a year ago and it wasn't medical, it was an abusive boyfriend. Nothing police related came into it and yes she did go to a hospital where if something was suspicious they have to report it. Just thought you'd like to know.

That's a case where it was her boyfriend's fault, not hers. I haven't had the chance to read the text of the law, but I would assume that he would be held responsible for killing the fetus (since he induced the miscarriage and by proxy performed an abortion).
But then again the law could be interpreted both ways; she could have been prosecuted for the death (by inciting her boyfriend to attack her). I know how misogynistic the courts can be, and it would not have surprised me in the least if this ever came to pass.

[Spyder]

The problem is in the amendment's fine print.

This isn't merely a matter of life or death. If a woman gets a miscarriage, then it would be considered murder. This amendment would halt Stem Cell Research and research on Embryos.

If a woman has cancer, a doctor would basically have to turn her away so he himself would not be accused of murder by giving her treatment.

The list goes on. All you women in Mississippi have my condolences.

[HibiscusKazeneko]

The problem is in the amendment's fine print.

This isn't merely a matter of life or death. If a woman gets a miscarriage, then it would be considered murder. This amendment would halt Stem Cell Research and research on Embryos.

If a woman has cancer, a doctor would basically have to turn her away so he himself would not be accused of murder by giving her treatment.

The list goes on. All you women in Mississippi have my condolences.

This is what I've been trying to say all along.
This amendment is one in a series of bills the extreme far Right have been pushing through the system over the past century or so to basically re-render women legally inferior to men, this time by declaring our bodies, specifically our reproductive organs, wards of the state.

[Maringue]

Again, you're wrong. I have a friend who miscarried a year ago and it wasn't medical, it was an abusive boyfriend. Nothing police related came into it and yes she did go to a hospital where if something was suspicious they have to report it. Just thought you'd like to know.

That's a case where it was her boyfriend's fault, not hers. I haven't had the chance to read the text of the law, but I would assume that he would be held responsible for killing the fetus (since he induced the miscarriage and by proxy performed an abortion).
But then again the law could be interpreted both ways; she could have been prosecuted for the death (by inciting her boyfriend to attack her). I know how misogynistic the courts can be, and it would not have surprised me in the least if this ever came to pass.[/quote]

Since you're talking about this miscarriage law, I felt I should chime in.

Basically this law is crap. Any defense lawyer worth his or her salt would shred any attempt to prosecute based on this law. Reason being is that we have the assumption of innocence. The prosecutor would have to prove who or what caused the miscarriage beyond reasonable doubt, which is nearly impossible. And if the prosecutor ever said something like, "Well, the baby was inside her, so we can assume she was at fault somehow," the whole thing would get appealed so fast that they shouldn't even close their briefcases.

It's still a fucking embarrassment to have these idiots in our country. Sometimes I wish we could vote states out of the Union, because NOBODY would miss Mississippi.

[duck]

Sometimes I wish we could vote states out of the Union, because NOBODY would miss Mississippi.

i lol'd

[HibiscusKazeneko]

That's a case where it was her boyfriend's fault, not hers. I haven't had the chance to read the text of the law, but I would assume that he would be held responsible for killing the fetus (since he induced the miscarriage and by proxy performed an abortion).
But then again the law could be interpreted both ways; she could have been prosecuted for the death (by inciting her boyfriend to attack her). I know how misogynistic the courts can be, and it would not have surprised me in the least if this ever came to pass.

Since you're talking about this miscarriage law, I felt I should chime in.

Basically this law is crap. Any defense lawyer worth his or her salt would shred any attempt to prosecute based on this law. Reason being is that we have the assumption of innocence. The prosecutor would have to prove who or what caused the miscarriage beyond reasonable doubt, which is nearly impossible. And if the prosecutor ever said something like, "Well, the baby was inside her, so we can assume she was at fault somehow," the whole thing would get appealed so fast that they shouldn't even close their briefcases.

It's still a fucking embarrassment to have these idiots in our country. Sometimes I wish we could vote states out of the Union, because NOBODY would miss Mississippi.

Fortunately the law was vetoed by the governor before it was to go into effect. Even so, I have to disagree with you on how it would be handled. I've read some hideous stories about how vindictive and misogynistic the court system can be. Basically, if a pregnant mother does ANYTHING "wrong" or even remotely against American medical wisdom, she is immediately thrown under the bus and a judge will order her child carved out of her and placed in "protective custody." (Yes, this has actually happened on numerous occasions.) I have also read some stories about how mothers were judged by others after miscarrying (most of which I can no longer access). There is a general attitude in American culture that if anything goes wrong with pregnancy or birth, we women as mothers are ALWAYS to blame, even in cases when it's someone else's fault (e.g. Ackybur's friend). I can predict this coming into play in a court of law if Amendment 26 passes; a mother miscarries for whatever reason, then she is charged with first-degree murder, is convicted, sentenced to death, appeals, fails and is executed, all to the tune of international outcry nonetheless.

[mrpikmin2]

Sometimes I wish we could vote states out of the Union, because NOBODY would miss Mississippi.

i lol'd

as a Mainer I wholeheartedly agree with this.

[HibiscusKazeneko]

Now the UN's gotten involved.
The more people we get to vocalize against this amendment, the better.

[Saber]

I was reading The Economist earlier, and I saw this one reader letter that turned out to be satirical.
It went something like this:
Yup, this law is totally cool! In fact, because Mississippi is going to consider all fetuses and fertilized eggs babies, we're going to go down to Mississippi, collect those, keep them frozen in our basements and let them be children, and collect tax subsidies. We'd also buy a generator to keep them cold in case the power goes out. Anything less is bad parenting.
That's basically how it was. You'd have to read it directly to understand why it was so damn funny.
(Read The Economist. It's a very good magazine about stuff.)

[HibiscusKazeneko]

I was reading The Economist earlier, and I saw this one reader letter that turned out to be satirical.
It went something like this:
Yup, this law is totally cool! In fact, because Mississippi is going to consider all fetuses and fertilized eggs babies, we're going to go down to Mississippi, collect those, keep them frozen in our basements and let them be children, and collect tax subsidies. We'd also buy a generator to keep them cold in case the power goes out. Anything less is bad parenting.
That's basically how it was. You'd have to read it directly to understand why it was so damn funny.
(Read The Economist. It's a very good magazine about stuff.)

Can you check their website to see if they have it posted there?

[Saber]

I was reading The Economist earlier, and I saw this one reader letter that turned out to be satirical.
It went something like this:
Yup, this law is totally cool! In fact, because Mississippi is going to consider all fetuses and fertilized eggs babies, we're going to go down to Mississippi, collect those, keep them frozen in our basements and let them be children, and collect tax subsidies. We'd also buy a generator to keep them cold in case the power goes out. Anything less is bad parenting.
That's basically how it was. You'd have to read it directly to understand why it was so damn funny.
(Read The Economist. It's a very good magazine about stuff.)

Can you check their website to see if they have it posted there?

Right, because I totally remembered that they have a website.
SIR – I was delighted to read your article about the effort in Mississippi to pass a state constitutional amendment to recognise embryos as people from the moment of fertilisation (“A person already?”, October 8th). My wife and I have been considering IVF to address our lack of success in conceiving a child. Mississippi’s proposed amendment gives us even more reason to pursue this treatment, and to move to Mississippi.

After the procedure we will insist on taking custody of any extra embryos that result from IVF—it is our right as parents after all. Once safely in our home we plan to keep them in a freezer in our basement and list them as child dependents for tax purposes, thus giving us a tax deduction. To protect the lives of our children in case of a power outage we will buy a backup generator. Anything less would be bad parenting.

Benjamin Iwai
St Louis, Missouri
loooooooooooooooool

[HibiscusKazeneko]

I was reading The Economist earlier, and I saw this one reader letter that turned out to be satirical.
It went something like this:
Yup, this law is totally cool! In fact, because Mississippi is going to consider all fetuses and fertilized eggs babies, we're going to go down to Mississippi, collect those, keep them frozen in our basements and let them be children, and collect tax subsidies. We'd also buy a generator to keep them cold in case the power goes out. Anything less is bad parenting.
That's basically how it was. You'd have to read it directly to understand why it was so damn funny.
(Read The Economist. It's a very good magazine about stuff.)

Can you check their website to see if they have it posted there?

Right, because I totally remembered that they have a website.
SIR – I was delighted to read your article about the effort in Mississippi to pass a state constitutional amendment to recognise embryos as people from the moment of fertilisation (“A person already?”, October 8th). My wife and I have been considering IVF to address our lack of success in conceiving a child. Mississippi’s proposed amendment gives us even more reason to pursue this treatment, and to move to Mississippi.

After the procedure we will insist on taking custody of any extra embryos that result from IVF—it is our right as parents after all. Once safely in our home we plan to keep them in a freezer in our basement and list them as child dependents for tax purposes, thus giving us a tax deduction. To protect the lives of our children in case of a power outage we will buy a backup generator. Anything less would be bad parenting.

Benjamin Iwai
St Louis, Missouri
loooooooooooooooool

Sounds like a troll to me.

EDIT: I looked this guy up on Google and apparently he's legit. That doesn't mean he doesn't enjoy trolling, though.
In the event he's not a troll, I'm not surprised. Missouri is full of hard-core rednecks; heck, they elected McCain in the '08 elections.

[Saber]

You call it a troll, I call it comedy. Close enough.

[HibiscusKazeneko]

You call it a troll, I call it comedy. Close enough.

I doubt this guy was trying to be funny. As I edited my above post to state, there actually are people who believe such things and would go to such lengths in real life.

[Saber]

You call it a troll, I call it comedy. Close enough.

I doubt this guy was trying to be funny. As I edited my above post to state, there actually are people who believe such things and would go to such lengths in real life.

[Wakka]

In the event he's not a troll, I'm not surprised. Missouri is full of hard-core rednecks; heck, they elected McCain in the '08 elections.

:/

st louis is actually pretty reasonable

[HibiscusKazeneko]

In the event he's not a troll, I'm not surprised. Missouri is full of hard-core rednecks; heck, they elected McCain in the '08 elections.

:/

st louis is actually pretty reasonable

Maybe, but I've been to the backwoods parts of Missouri and it's full of rednecks.

[Techercizer]

Maybe, but I've been to the backwoods parts of Missouri and it's full of rednecks.

That's what makes any location "backwoods", is it not?

[HibiscusKazeneko]

Maybe, but I've been to the backwoods parts of Missouri and it's full of rednecks.

That's what makes any location "backwoods", is it not?

That and the fact that it's located out in the ass-end of nowhere. When I was younger, my mom dragged me and my brother into these dinky towns where only a fistful of people lived. There's literally nothing but farmland and cemeteries out there.

[Wakka]

yeah, i just have to pretend to object since i'm from a smaller city in missouri

...and you're totally right

[Guy]

Remember if you let the crazies pass this into law, they will go into a bloodlust.
As they will have the taste of blood on thier chops, and will want more.

Who knows who will next in their sights... my guess will be gays and lesbains... but you never know.

Look people, if you wanna live in a country like Iran, just move there... and feel the bliss of living in a therocracy.... and let the rest of us live in peace. No one cares that you believe in a magic zombie man and a book of contradictions, thats the beauty of America.

No offense to anyone, but ya'll have no idea what I have to go threw any time I set out anywhere outside any major city in Texas.
I can't even change my tire without worrying about getting beaten to death by the "righteous".

[Wakka]

No offense to anyone, but ya'll have no idea what I have to go threw any time I set out anywhere outside any major city in Texas.
I can't even change my tire without worrying about getting beaten to death by the "righteous".

as pleasant as rural missouri is, i can only imagine...

[HibiscusKazeneko]

OK people, Amendment 26 goes to the polls tonight.
Now to watch and see if it passes...

EDIT: VICTORY! It failed!