is the "occupy <place>" the American spring?

[Failhorse]

Playing off the Arab spring. What do you think will happen with these protests? How is this different than the Tea Party? And why is the media and most politicians so out of touch?

[Techercizer]

Playing off the Arab spring. What do you think will happen with these protests? How is this different than the Tea Party? And why is the media and most politicians so out of touch?

I might have some sort of respect for the protesters if their official goal wasn't something such a laughably farcical draconian offense against everything our society stands for.

[Failhorse]

did you read what their "general assembly" released?
think it's this. I know there's a couple fakes out there.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/wat ... -manifest/

[Techercizer]

did you read what their "general assembly" released?
think it's this. I know there's a couple fakes out there.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/wat ... -manifest/

When they were organizing, their facebook page said their umbrella goal was to end the influence of money in politics.

Edit: and upon reading their demands, I'm pretty sure that if half of these were met, our country would collapse. They all sound like the sort of "nice ideas" people sign up for without considering the long term repercussions or how other people will be negatively impacted.

[HibiscusKazeneko]

I anticipate that if these protests go on long enough, we'll have another Tiananmen Square on our hands.

[Failhorse]

I disagree. We're Americans. The economy is a sub for having a gun to our heads.

[HibiscusKazeneko]

I disagree. We're Americans. The economy is a sub for having a gun to our heads.

It has happened before, though.
Remember the Whiskey Rebellion? It could happen again.

[Mike808]

protests already failed.
it was supposed to oppose corruption in government because of big company influence, and how some big companies dont need to pay much tax.
but now it turned into "give us yo monies"

i guess more dust for this

[Failhorse]

can you back that up mike?
Not what i'm seeing at all. And if you take 1-2 people and present that as a movement... well.

[Failhorse]

Don't mean to double post.
An arab. Speaking.. In America. Said Capitalist domination. And referenced Marx.


Bill O'reilly's head just exploded.

[Mike808]

well what tech said is true. if we did radical change now while we are in a slump, we would just screw ourselves over more.
im honestly stopped keeping up with this after the first few days because of what the protesters are posting on anon forums.
"1% should give us their money" thats not gonna fix shit. and when i listen to the videos on youtube and such the chants and what people are saying is just that.
Unless the majority actually changes to the End Corruption standpoint, this protest has no chance.

I doubt I will be going to my local occupy movement.

[Failhorse]

Why would you take anything on the internet seriously? Especially from Anon. All their hacking, yet still no proof of UFOs.
They can't get out from behind their computer.

[Ackybur]

"1% should give us their money"

I read this, and I get mad. These people are living so far beyond their means that they are blaming their own faults on others. Yes, I know that this isn't the case for all people, but right now it's the case for most. I don't think they should give us all that money... we'd spend that and more in a matter of a few hours. We're a country full of consumers and we're not even close to stopping.

[Mike808]

Why would you take anything on the internet seriously? Especially from Anon. All their hacking, yet still no proof of UFOs.
They can't get out from behind their computer.

Because I enjoy going to the protests they plan. (only 2 in hawaii so far ) and I sort of back what they believe in.

"1% should give us their money"

I read this, and I get mad. These people are living so far beyond their means that they are blaming their own faults on others. Yes, I know that this isn't the case for all people, but right now it's the case for most. I don't think they should give us all that money... we'd spend that and more in a matter of a few hours. We're a country full of consumers and we're not even close to stopping.

Yea but thats what the majority of people are saying and thats why they are there. GIVE US YO MONIES!!!!

[Ackybur]

Yea but thats what the majority of people are saying and thats why they are there. GIVE US YO MONIES!!!!

That's what frustrates me. A false entitlement that these people have... Billionaires are billionaires for a reason. They worked hard for their whole life to gain what they have, they do earn it. Some guy who can't find a job IN HIS FIELD, not a job in general just in his field, is saying that he deserves what they've fought to gain.

[Mike808]

Yea like Tech and I have said before in this topic, the protests main goal is to end the influence of large corporations on government officials. Just because a company gave you 3 million dollars, doesn't mean you now think global warming is false. Shit like that is what the protests is supposed to be about.
Or how JPmorgan donated like 1 million dollars (not sure exactly how much, but it was a lot) to NYPD a few days ago, now theres more cops on duty and they are more aggressive than before.

I am totally behind this idea, government officials shouldn't change their views on world problems because of generous monetary donations to their campaign fund or whatnot. Im the type of person who even finds it annoying when a documentary suggests something, and in the credits a major donator is an opponent or supporter of what the documentary was trying to sneak in. PBS does that a lot.

[Failhorse]

Ackbar no one is talking about entitlements. What you call hard working billionaires spent the last 30 years rigging the system. Where in the constitution does it say that corporations are people? Why do they get to donate unlimited money anonymously. Moreover they've convinced the vast majority of Americans that "one day you could be rich too." So work against your own self interest.

Up until the 1900's corporations couldn't exist for more than 7 years. It was against the law. 10 years ago the news part of TV was required by law to be completely separate for the advertising divisions. News wasn't a multi billion dollar industry. Now American news is complete bs on all sides.

But to get back on topic. Entitlements. Up until Reagan the top tax rate was 80%. Make more than 3 million dollars it was taxed high. CEOs made on average 45 times more than the average worker. Now it's 400 times. Plus stock options. Which were illegal up until Reagan. The consensus on that was 2 fold. CEOs with stock were more inclined to care about the stock than the company. With the top tax rate high, more money was put back into the company.

Then it progressively dropped for the next 30 years. Reagan added more debt to this country than every president before him. Lowered tax on rich people and put it all on the backs of the working class. 30 frikken years of this. Meanwhile our bought off congress creates "free trade" that costs the US 5 million jobs since 1992. Since 2000 we've lost over 50,000 factories. We're in a depression right now. We survived the last one because we made stuff.

You want to blame the guy who can't get a job. It's not his fault. It's 30 years of crappy economics.

Right now all Obama is asking is a 3% tax increase on the wealthy. Bringing the tax rate back to 1992-1999. What the hell is wrong with that?

[Techercizer]

I'd just like to point out that when I said I thought their umbrella goal was ending the influence of money in politics, I was doing it with the subtext that said demand was unreasonable and ignorant to the point of satirical absurdity.

[HibiscusKazeneko]

I'd just like to point out that when I said I thought their umbrella goal was ending the influence of money in politics, I was doing it with the subtext that said demand was unreasonable and ignorant to the point of satirical absurdity.

True, but you did bring up a valid point.
In 1970 a law was passed (I can't remember what it was called anymore) banning corporations from directly donating money to political campaigns. They quickly got around this by forming Political Action Committees (PACs) who would meet on the side and donate money on the companies' behalf. If we outlaw PACs and all corporate lobbying, we will deal a huge blow to political corruption.

[nikola]

Late to the discussion...

To end the infuence of corporate money in politics you would have to end politics. It is all about money. Even if somehow that succeeds in an alternate universe where magic exists politics would go rogue. You can look at Russia for example. The average Joe would be far worse off there.

Failhorse: I think you mean a downturn since we are not in a depression. Also you cannot compare 20 years ago with today. Everything is different now. Without free trade agreements your GDP will drop like a brick from an airplane. The world is flat now and getting flatter. Blame the internet. You also have significantly higher efficiencies in every industry across the board. That also contributes to loss of manual labor. Blame technology. On the other hand you have a large number of engineering and tech jobs which are sitting unfilled simply because there are not enough people with education to claim them. What does that say about entitlement?

Taking 3% from a single income class is a really dumb idea. The end result would be more billions of dollars of governmental waste. IMHO the important thing is to find a way to get some tax rebates to the middle and low class without making it look like a class warfare. Those are the people that would go out and spend the money which would in turn give companies the confidence to start investing. Right now everyone is sitting on the sidelines hoarding insane amounts of cash becasue they are uncertain of where things are going. Apple for example has enough cash on their balance sheet to buy Bank of America and have a few billion left. They are doing nothing with it. Not expanding, not hiring. And the same picture repeats in every industry. Corporations also have a huge amount of cash sitting outside of the US due to the repatriation tax. Lowering that for a limited time may be a good idea and a pretty decent source of revenue which can substitute that 3%.

Back to the jobs and free trade agreements for a second... I think that some positions would actually start to come back to the states withint the next few years. China is having some serious inflation problems and their Yuan is tied to the Dollar which essentially gives our currency a backdoor devaluation and makes the US a cheaper exporter thus raising our exports and increasing production here. Then China buys capital goods from Germany equaling to about half their GDP which would slow down, respectively slowing down German investment and freeing some money, a portion of which they are bound to spend on stuff comming from here. So no matter how bad things are we are still on top in the short term. All this end of America and this is not America anymore rederick is just bullshit from people who preffer handouts than getting some technical education.

[mrProtagonist]

Education costs money. If you don't have money because you lost your job, how can you gain a better education? Don't tell me "Get another job" because all they would most likely get is a minimum wage job at McDonalds.
University/College is expensive. Very expensive. Some people just don't have the money to pay for it.

Or the grades. Which is probably why they were doing manual labor.

[HibiscusKazeneko]

Education costs money. If you don't have money because you lost your job, how can you gain a better education? Don't tell me "Get another job" because all they would most likely get is a minimum wage job at McDonalds.

If they're lucky enough to even get that.
The employment situation around the country varies, but in many areas (such as Los Angeles) there are literally few to no jobs available. I was reading an article a week or so back about a woman who was forced to work for a boss who repeatedly sexually assaulted her because she was a single mom with a son to support and could not afford to spend the infinite time it took to find another job.

[Failhorse]

Wasn't there a riot in England cause they raised tuition from 3000 to 5000 pounds a year.
Before Reagan you went to community college in most states for free.

[Mike808]

looks like oahu protesters arnt full of idiots yet. went to the ga, was pretty organized.

[HibiscusKazeneko]

I figured you guys would like this:
Occupy protesters vs. Tea Party protesters

Apparently the Occupy protesters are being discriminated against by city officials in some places. Seattle, for example, is picking on them by prohibiting them from propping their umbrellas or setting up tents or tarps to keep them safe from the rain.