SlayBox 1 donor system complaints

[Mike808]

ive been getting complaints about the admin/donor right that allows you to pick any class.
example: lets say there is a 2 limit on snipers and both slots are already filled by nondonators. if a donator goes sniper, whoever dies next of the 2 nondonator snipers will be kicked out of the class and forced to play another.

people have been complaining about this to me. especially if a donator goes engy and then the regular gets kicked out of his slot when he dies, and all his buildings go bye bye.

is there a way so that donators choosing a class doesnt end up booting someone else from the slot?

[Amplify]

→ Pick engie and build everything.
→ Get randomly killed and loose your engie spot to a random donator.
→ Random donator pick another class after 1 min in the spawn.
→ Go back engie.
→ Repeat.

Same goes when you're top sniper and suddenly you lose your spot to donator and the other sniper have probably 0:∞ ratio.

[Hatred]

i still think only pl whom donate should get this privaledge to encourage $ even from admins ...

and ya ppl shouldnt get kicked from a class cause of this problem

[fingerman]

I will fix this when I get back.

[Toaster]

i still think only pl whom donate should get this privaledge to encourage $ even from admins ...

I think thats already the case

[Maringue]

I've never liked this system, but I'm in the minority. I don't think anyone should get to ignore class limits.

[doppelganger]

to my knowledge it was never supposed to do that, it was setup to add extensions just like when you join the server when it's already full. I'm sure one of the redmins will correct it soon.

[Hatred]

just got switched off my class for the first time .... hated it

[Vivi Hill]

I don't think this is set up on slaybox 2 is it?

[Failhorse]

no, we were just testing on 1.

[Argent]

i still think only pl whom donate should get this privaledge to encourage $ even from admins ...

I think thats already the case

Unless it's changed, I recall a time when my team steamroll'd on Turbine just because me and another donater both went defense engie when the limit is 1, and the other engie was able to build in the center (which I thought the 1 engie limit was supposed to prevent, 'cause it's annoying)

JS

[Mike808]

not in slaybox 2 only in 1
thats why when i go engy (to number 3 out of 2 limit) to help level up my teams stuff i hold down tab to look at the score board to see if one of them dies. once one of them dies i hit my bind to kill myself lol

[Failhorse]

How about a flat 0 engie rule on Turbine?

That'd be a game changes.


(also hightower)

[GoDM1N]

How about we just don't play Turbine

[Vivi Hill]

I'd be willing to give the class restrictions plugin a hack or two. Does it need it?

[Maringue]

I personally think it needs to not exist. The class limits we have really help to keep the game play moving smoothly and I think that messing with them upsets a very nice balance that we have struck in our servers.

[Vivi Hill]

That is true. Up until now our policy has been pretty strictly against game-changing benefits. With this installed we're really potentially changing the game a lot. And we'd be encouraging players to pay to get more full access to the game, which was something we wanted to avoid.

[GoDM1N]

I personally think it needs to not exist. The class limits we have really help to keep the game play moving smoothly and I think that messing with them upsets a very nice balance that we have struck in our servers.

How many times does it matter? Its not like we're ever unbalanced with it anyway due to donators unless we're doing something fun like all red team mini engis, which we cant do anymore. Personally HATE seeing it remvoed, and I wont be donating shit till its back. It never caused any problems other than the moving other players out of the class thing, and that was a glitch.

Also so far everyone who has bitched about the donor class limit thing don't even play on Slay1 due to random crits. So da fuck do they care

[Maringue]

The issue is that this could be an escalating problem. For spies and snipers, the limit is two for a reason. In fact, on a lot of maps, 2 snipers is already too many for the offensive team (I can't count the number of times my skilled team has lost because we had two snipers and two spies). So when you ad a third because a donator wants to play one of those classes, it make the problem even worse.

The engie limit is even more important. Ever played freight on a sever with no class limits? It turns into an engie turtle fest and is about as fun as watching old people fuck. But because we have an engie limit of 1, the map flows back and forth and is actually fun to play. Secondly, what if only one team has a donator. Then you could have 2 engies vs. 1 on a map like freight that would be TOTALLY unbalanced.

Our policy has always bee crafted so that donator benefits do not confer in game benefits (end round immunity doesn't affect the outcome). Basically no pay to play. We don't want non-donators to be second class citizens and we want people to donate because they like how we run a tight ship and want to support our efforts, not so they can do as they please. Also, we don't want people donating just so they can join as the extra spy/sniper/engie. That not the kind of member we want. I've seen more than one person join a team, see that the one class they play is full, then switch teams as fast as they can so they can be a spy. Would it be the end of the world to play one of the other 8 classes?

Your donation will be sorely missed, but also keep in mind that "Donations are gifts given without return consideration," from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donation. Also remember that while we love our donators, the non-donators play a big role in making this place as fun as it is.

Also, I'm confused about the video. Were you showing us that you can't join as the 3rd spy?

[GoDM1N]

The issue is that this could be an escalating problem. For spies and snipers, the limit is two for a reason. In fact, on a lot of maps, 2 snipers is already too many for the offensive team (I can't count the number of times my skilled team has lost because we had two snipers and two spies). So when you ad a third because a donator wants to play one of those classes, it make the problem even worse.

This isn't a comp match, who cares as long as people are having fun? If two snipers is too many even without the donor classes limit why don't we just remove the ability to even play sniper on blue?

The engie limit is even more important. Ever played freight on a sever with no class limits? It turns into an engie turtle fest and is about as fun as watching old people fuck. But because we have an engie limit of 1, the map flows back and forth and is actually fun to play. Secondly, what if only one team has a donator. Then you could have 2 engies vs. 1 on a map like freight that would be TOTALLY unbalanced.

Freight sucks on pub servers to start with so meh. Not to mention while donors were able to switch I didn't ever see that happen while we could. The whole point of this thread was that non-donors were getting kicked off their classes which was a glitch, not that we have a problem with there being too many engies or spies

Our policy has always bee crafted so that donator benefits do not confer in game benefits (end round immunity doesn't affect the outcome). Basically no pay to play. We don't want non-donators to be second class citizens and we want people to donate because they like how we run a tight ship and want to support our efforts, not so they can do as they please. Also, we don't want people donating just so they can join as the extra spy/sniper/engie. That not the kind of member we want. I've seen more than one person join a team, see that the one class they play is full, then switch teams as fast as they can so they can be a spy. Would it be the end of the world to play one of the other 8 classes?

Its not like we're giving donors admin or anything, and its not like its going to effect the non donors. As for the rest, all I have to say is it really the end of the world if we have 3 spies, or 2 engies or 12 demomen, or 9 engies with minis, or a full team of battle medics ect?

[Mike808]

the ability shouldnt be removed. its something that i think should remain as an donator thing.
the problem to be addressed as godmin said was it booting people off when they died instead of adding another slot

[fingerman]

Problem solved:

I did some research on the sourcemod forums. TN clan uses the same plugin we do, they just use a different version: "I am using this version that simply lets donators join the full class and blocks everyone else when the class is full. Eventually, players will leave and it will even out."

So basically it shouldn't kick players now.

[Mike808]

yessssssss

[Maringue]

I'll do these one at a time:

This isn't a comp match, who cares as long as people are having fun? If two snipers is too many even without the donor classes limit why don't we just remove the ability to even play sniper on blue?
>On offense one skilled sniper is good for the team. 3 snipers leave the team without enough people to push the cart/cap the point.

Freight sucks on pub servers to start with so meh. Not to mention while donors were able to switch I didn't ever see that happen while we could. The whole point of this thread was that non-donors were getting kicked off their classes which was a glitch, not that we have a problem with there being too many engies or spies
>Have you ever asked why it sucks on pubs servers? It's because most don't have class limits and everyone piles onto engie or other support classes and no one goes anywhere. We do have a problem with too many spies and snipers. Have you ever watched the start of a round? It's like a god damned race to see who can get to the spy and sniper slots first. I personally think we already have too many regs who only play one class, be it spy or sniper, and won't play anything else.

Its not like we're giving donors admin or anything, and its not like its going to effect the non donors. As for the rest, all I have to say is it really the end of the world if we have 3 spies, or 2 engies or 12 demomen, or 9 engies with minis, or a full team of battle medics ect?
>It's not the end of the world, but the sever would start to suck balls if we let stuff like that happen a lot. The reason we get a lot of people coming here is because we make rules that keep the game competitive for both teams, which make it fun for everyone. Servers with no class limits are generally HORRIBLE, so that is why I don't think we should let anyone get around those limits. If you can't play spy for 10 minutes, suck it up and play another class for a bit. It won't be the end of the world...

Yes, while this started as a complaint that people were getting kicked because of the mod, I chose to point out that it was causing a disruption in the very delicate balance that we have struck on these servers. When you start messing with that the whole system goes down.

[GoDM1N]

>On offense one skilled sniper is good for the team. 3 snipers leave the team without enough people to push the cart/cap the point.

Way to dodge the point

>Have you ever asked why it sucks on pubs servers? It's because most don't have class limits and everyone piles onto engie or other support classes and no one goes anywhere. We do have a problem with too many spies and snipers. Have you ever watched the start of a round? It's like a god damned race to see who can get to the spy and sniper slots first.

Oh plz you're inflating a non existing problem on the CSn server. Matter of fact last night Fingermen was testing out some plug-ins to fix the problem where people were getting kicked off classes due to donors and ended up playing without any class limits for a few hrs and didn't run into any problems really. Sure it may happen every now and then but its generally rare and only happens once in a blue moon like 30mins sudden death matches

I personally think we already have too many regs who only play one class, be it spy or sniper, and won't play anything else

No the problem is we have too many try hards who bitch non-stop unless they have a perfectly balanced team who cant sit back and enjoy a round for what it is.

>It's not the end of the world, but the sever would start to suck balls if we let stuff like that happen a lot. The reason we get a lot of people coming here is because we make rules that keep the game competitive for both teams, which make it fun for everyone. Servers with no class limits are generally HORRIBLE, so that is why I don't think we should let anyone get around those limits. If you can't play spy for 10 minutes, suck it up and play another class for a bit. It won't be the end of the world...

And yet it doesn't happen with the donor class limits, so you have nothing to worry about

Yes, while this started as a complaint that people were getting kicked because of the mod, I chose to point out that it was causing a disruption in the very delicate balance that we have struck on these servers. When you start messing with that the whole system goes down.

How? When has anyone complained about it for screwing with the balance?

[Mike808]

I personally think we already have too many regs who only play one class, be it spy or sniper, and won't play anything else.

i second this though

but this is kinda getting off topic -.-

[GoDM1N]

Yea! How dare people play classes they enjoy

[Maringue]

Dude, I don't mind if you play a class you enjoy, but sometimes you need to switch to another class for the sake of the team, you know, that pesky word in front of Fortress.

I'm an admin, so it's my job to be constantly obsessing about things like team balance so that people like you can sit back and have fun. You may personally think the game is fun when it's not going anywhere and you can just run around backstabbing people, but the majority of the players here like the game to go somewhere. The most fun games are those rounds where the last 3 minutes is an epic battle to get that cart to move the last 10% of the distance. Can Red hold? Can Blue get a rush through? Will there be a massive battle that allows a scout or spy to sneak around and cap? Those are the rounds that I personally play for, so I work to make them as frequent as possible.

[GoDM1N]

Dude, I don't mind if you play a class you enjoy, but sometimes you need to switch to another class for the sake of the team, you know, that pesky word in front of Fortress.

I was hoping you'd say something like that so I could bring up my HLstats
http://critsandvich.com/stats/hlstats.p ... e=tf-comp#

Role Selection *

Rank Role Joined % Ratio Kills Deaths K:D
1 Soldier 162 times 25.71% 1,405 745 1.89
2 Demo Man 137 times 21.75% 890 533 1.67
3 Spy 110 times 17.46% 1,414 777 1.82
4 Medic 56 times 8.89% 40 214 0.19
5 Heavy 48 times 7.62% 327 112 2.92
6 Sniper 36 times 5.71% 126 89 1.42
7 Pyro 31 times 4.92% 108 71 1.52
8 Engineer 28 times 4.44% 74 85 0.87
9 Scout 22 times 3.49% 41 51 0.80

I'm an admin, so it's my job to be constantly obsessing about things like team balance so that people like you can sit back and have fun. You may personally think the game is fun when it's not going anywhere and you can just run around backstabbing people, but the majority of the players here like the game to go somewhere. The most fun games are those rounds where the last 3 minutes is an epic battle to get that cart to move the last 10% of the distance. Can Red hold? Can Blue get a rush through? Will there be a massive battle that allows a scout or spy to sneak around and cap? Those are the rounds that I personally play for, so I work to make them as frequent as possible.

And this means we shouldn't have the donor class limits why? We have never had a problem like too many engis/spies/snipers (that I've seen anyway) which is the reason you say it shouldn't exist, so why shouldn't it exist? I as well as other members are more likely to donate because of it so I fail to see why we shouldn't have it

[Maringue]

Role Selection *

Rank Role Joined % Ratio Kills Deaths K:D
1 Soldier 162 times 25.71% 1,405 745 1.89
2 Demo Man 137 times 21.75% 890 533 1.67
3 Spy 110 times 17.46% 1,414 777 1.82
4 Medic 56 times 8.89% 40 214 0.19
5 Heavy 48 times 7.62% 327 112 2.92
6 Sniper 36 times 5.71% 126 89 1.42
7 Pyro 31 times 4.92% 108 71 1.52
8 Engineer 28 times 4.44% 74 85 0.87
9 Scout 22 times 3.49% 41 51 0.80

So what's the problem dude? If spy is full just play another class.

Edit: Godmin, I'm not trying to piss on your party, but I'm just trying to bring up something that has a chance of hurting our overall gameplay in the long run. What if we switched this benefit out for some sort of bonus during contests for donors only? Since free shit is being given out, donators would get a some sort of slight advantage during the contest. I love giving donators benefits, I just want to keep the awesomeness we've got going as far as gameplay is concerned.

[GoDM1N]

So what's the problem dude? If spy is full just play another class.

The point is I don't always play spy, so don't say I only play spy. I also generally would just play something else, but seeing how we have this awesome plug-in that doesn't effect the game why not allow our donors to simply play whatever they want. Only reason I got so up in arms about it is because you said it shouldn't exist with out valid reason

Edit: Godmin, I'm not trying to piss on your party, but I'm just trying to bring up something that has a chance of hurting our overall gameplay in the long run. What if we switched this benefit out for some sort of bonus during contests for donors only? Since free shit is being given out, donators would get a some sort of slight advantage during the contest. I love giving donators benefits, I just want to keep the awesomeness we've got going as far as gameplay is concerned.

You keep coming back to the whole "This ruins any balance between classes" but in reality it doesn't. Maybe you should try playing in SB1 before you knock it. Am I right to assume you're also against the extra donor server slots because they turn the server into a 36man spam fest?

As for as giving donors a benefit in the contest, I'll just quote something you said

Our policy has always bee crafted so that donator benefits do not confer in game benefits (end round immunity doesn't affect the outcome).

Personally would be against the idea, mainly because I feel it will turn more people off than on to the whole contest. Mainly the newer fun having/awesome community members we gain from it, or at least should gain from it.

[Vivi Hill]

Well we are against turning it into a 36 man spam fest, that's why we stay at 26 slots (26 slots isn't a spam fest).

[GoDM1N]

Well we are against turning it into a 36 man spam fest, that's why we stay at 26 slots (26 slots isn't a spam fest).

Yes, but how often do we even use the extra two slots is the point. I'm not 100% sure on how it works but I've yet to be told I cant join due to the server being full after doing the connect command. With people leaving and joining constantly it never really matters. At the most we may have 25 people for a few mins if that and then we're back to 24. Same with the class balance with the donor class limits.

[Mike808]

as long as the problem of kicking people out of the class is fixed.
i strongly believe this perk should be brought back because ive never seen it be a bad thing ever. (other than when it booted people from the class when they died)