Class Limits???

[Plasma Waffle]

Dude, why? I love everything about these servers, except for class limits. I usually blacklist servers with classlimits >.<

[Divide by NaN]

I Totally agree. It's game breaking.

[Enigma]

Class limits = no class rushes = not cool

[Vivi Hill]

That's what I used to think, but it's grown on me. Sure, no engie rushes, but in the end they aren't fun for the opposite team. We don't have limits on scouts or other classes that are more balanced though. It's mainly to solve the problem of 6 snipers on a team that do nothing.

[NuclearWatermelon]

Well, put in a colorful analogy way, class limits are like cuffs.
And I can break those cuffs.

Similary to Benny I used to disagree with them most all the time, but it can be useful to stop such things as maddeningly disproportionate amounts of snipers on a team.

[Plasma Waffle]

Okay snipers is one thing, but engis and spies? Come on guys

[VoltySquirrel]

Engies and Spys are the worst. A team with 3 spies almost never win, and anymore than 3 engies is OP. I am an advocate for Class limits, so I say keep 'em.

[Ackybur]

Plus the billions of heavies that can over power the other team easily. I feel that if class limits are dropped then goomba stomp comes back.

[Snowsickle]

Pub players lack the coordination to beat certain classes when massed. Heavies, particularly heavies using natascha, are a great example. Most people can't beat a heavy playing a counter-class, let alone a generic combat class. Snipers and spies are frustrating to have on your team in quantities greater than 2 or 3, since 9 times out of 10 they're absolutely awful players that will sit on the bottom of the scoreboard playing two of the classes that require the most finesse.

Is it such a foreign idea for people to consider what is fun for other players? Yeah, your 10 heavy/medic rush might be a blast and you might find it really, really funny, but it's going to empty the server of anyone not participating in it. On the flip side, I highly doubt we're going to lose many people because they can't set up 12 wrangled sentries on the last point of the map.

[NuclearWatermelon]

We still had an amazing scout rush on Coldfront. Class limits didn't stop that.

[Ackybur]

But that rush was put to an end as soon as I was scrambled and brought out heavy natasha

[NuclearWatermelon]

But that rush was put to an end as soon as I was scrambled and brought out heavy natasha

For every scout rush there is an equal and opposite Natascha rush?

[Argent]

Pub players lack the coordination to beat certain classes when massed. Heavies, particularly heavies using natascha, are a great example. Most people can't beat a heavy playing a counter-class, let alone a generic combat class. Snipers and spies are frustrating to have on your team in quantities greater than 2 or 3, since 9 times out of 10 they're absolutely awful players that will sit on the bottom of the scoreboard playing two of the classes that require the most finesse.

Is it such a foreign idea for people to consider what is fun for other players? Yeah, your 10 heavy/medic rush might be a blast and you might find it really, really funny, but it's going to empty the server of anyone not participating in it. On the flip side, I highly doubt we're going to lose many people because they can't set up 12 wrangled sentries on the last point of the map.

I'm going to ahead and infer that as a personal compliment.



On a more relevant note, I've only noticed class limits on the engie, which I agree with. Is it 2 cap for every class?

[Snowsickle]

Engineer cap varies with the map, sniper and spy should be capped at 3 regardless of map, and we used to have a 3 heavy cap but I have no idea if that is still in effect. Everything else should be fair game regardless of the number of people playing it.

[Patrid]

NOTE THERE ARE NOT ANY CLASS LIMITS ON SCOUTS PYROS MEDICS ( GOOD team-play CLASSES )

since 9 times out of 10 they're absolutely awful players that will sit on the bottom of the scoreboard playing two of the classes that require the most finesse.

Thanks snow for calling me out

[Plasma Waffle]

At the very least you guys should have ONE server with no class limits. Just one?????

[Mike808]

the bad thing about class limits is.
what if the 2 slots for sniper or spy are taken up by complete nubs
and someone who is actually good comes to the server but can not play their favorite class.
they usually end up leaving the server... or that could just be me.

cause i consider myself a decent sniper and most of the time i have the top score (unless luminal was in the server sniping too, you TF and QT's should remember his beast mode)
but when i join a server with class limits my fav class' of spy, sniper, demo, or medic is always full and i have a dull time on the server

[Enigma]

the bad thing about class limits is.
what if the 2 slots for sniper or spy are taken up by complete nubs
and someone who is actually good comes to the server but can not play their favorite class.
they usually end up leaving the server... or that could just be me.

cause i consider myself a decent sniper and most of the time i have the top score (unless luminal was in the server sniping too, you TF and QT's should remember his beast mode)
but when i join a server with class limits my fav class' of spy, sniper, demo, or medic is always full and i have a dull time on the server

gonna have to agree with mike on this one. noobs ruin everything.

[Echoplex]

The engi class limit is a must IMO - It's too easy to spam engineer in small games and is a big liability to kill the server any time it happens.
The sniper class limit...I like for obvious reasons. If you're good at sniping and want to snipe, then convince one your crappy teammates that you should be the one doing it.
The spy class limit I could go other way on, but how often do you ever see, let alone have the need for, for 4+ spies?

Those are the only 3 class limits we use that I know of...I cannot see how any of them would be extremely frustrating because odds are if you're good at one of those classes you can actually have a more profound impact rounding out the team with a different class that captures points and pushes carts.

Do people find that they get locked out by class limits often? You are on a 12 person team, max, on our server

[Failhorse]

Put things into perspective. Current limits on most map, 2 engie, 2 spy, 2 sniper. Generally worthless. Leaving the other 6 to be useful.

[Echoplex]

Put things into perspective. Current limits on most map, 2 engie, 2 spy, 2 sniper. Generally worthless. Leaving the other 6 to be useful.

Also leaves one person per remaining class

[Smeemo]

If you want to play x but x is full, asking nicely never hurts. Endlessly berating the noob till he switches also works.

But srsly, putting limits on classes that are meant to be used to achieve situational victories (heavy, spy, sniper, engineer) means that we'll see more of the versatile classes like scouts, soldiers, demomanz, and medics. My logic might be flawed here, but I think this equals MOAR TEAMWORK if we're taking the utilitarian what's-best-for-the-most-amount-of-people approach. I might advocate dropping the class limits if there were limits on specific weapons for each team; For instance, one natascha per team, one wrangler per team, and... well only those two OP monstrosities, I guess. But our current method is much simpler and serves its purpose quite well, I think.

[Maringue]

Smeemo, clearly you under estimate how deadly the Sash/Natasha combo is. But I digress.

Yesterday I had like an hour to play and no one was on here. So I went over to a local server that has no limits at all. It's fucking chaos. First off, the lack of class limits means that the attacking team almost never, ever wins. Secondly, as much as you like to play sniper, do you know how frustrating it is to play on an attacking team with 3 snipers? Talk about people leaving the servers.

Here's my take. On attacking teams, there should never be more than 1 sniper, but we allow 2. Same goes with spies. If two spies can't sap those buildings or backstab that uber charged medic, then it's not going to get done.

I would personally say that class limits make people branch out and get better at all the classes. Also, think about what your team needs vs what you want to play. No medic on offense, then go medic, ect. I only ever play spy or sniper when we are screwing around or we don't have one of those classes and actually need one.

Class limits make the game more fun for everyone in the server. And yes, there is always the spy with zero points that is taking up a slot. Even if I don't want to play that class, I ask or try to convince the person to switch classes to something useful.

[Failhorse]

I was on said server with Maringue. At one point the other team had 5 snipers. Not to mention it was a 32 player server, and the entire team had 3 attack classes.

It was badwater. Needless to say a sticky jump and camping racked up a stupid amount of kills. The people on the team never switched classes to try and counter me. I only died from my patented Fail's Accidental Sticky Suicide. Sounds all fun, but my team was still unable to cap past the 2nd point. As my team was also filled with snipers and spies.

You cannot expect the majority of players to be useful when the time comes. I make jokes about being a stat whore, but this is 1 of the only things that can help prevent that.

[Ackybur]

I was on said server with Maringue. At one point the other team had 5 snipers. Not to mention it was a 32 player server, and the entire team had 3 attack classes.

It was badwater. Needless to say a sticky jump and camping racked up a stupid amount of kills. The people on the team never switched classes to try and counter me. I only died from my patented Fail's Accidental Sticky Suicide. Sounds all fun, but my team was still unable to cap past the 2nd point. As my team was also filled with snipers and spies.

You cannot expect the majority of players to be useful when the time comes. I make jokes about being a stat whore, but this is 1 of the only things that can help prevent that.

Those always made me laugh