I've never seen so much pointless bitching.

[VoltySquirrel]

On Tuesday, 1PM JPT, Portal 2 came out. About 5 minutes later, people took the internetz to bitch. What about? Portal 2. What were they bitching about? Why pointless shit of course! I've never seen so much whining about things that have nothing to do with someone's overall enjoyment of a game. What wonderful topics worthy of whining are we talking about? Well, we have the Robot Enrichment store, the Potato Sack, people getting the Valve Complete Pack for getting a Golden Tater, the fact that Portal 2 only came out 10 hours early, the ARG in general, and the Super 8 teaser of all thing. Now, I'm going to go through and tell you fine people why all of these claims are bullshit and just plain childish complaints.

1) Robot store: general complaints are based around the fact that it merely exists. Yeah, I won't lie, I groan slightly when I saw it, but at this point it shouldn't be a surprise. Valve and the various community contributors have made tons of money with what boils down to a couple models. I personally don't consider a hat DLC, because it is not new content, I just a new hat. You don't need it, and it does not turn TF2 into a Play 2 Win game. Most of the stuff you can get for free anyway.

2) This one gets me the most. People are moaning and groaning because the spent 35 hard earned dollars to buy the Potato Sack, because they didn't really want the games, they just wanted the Portal 2 content. So, basically people are mad that they impulse buyed and now have buyers remorse. Get over yourselves.

3) In general, most complaints are directed at the ARG for some reason, all of which are stupid. a) they are mad that they didn't get free stuff. Boohoo. Benny slaved for those taters, he deserves 'em. b) The fact that Portal 2 only came out 10 hours early. WTF? You're whining because a game you anticipated for 3.5 years came out not early enough? /facepalm. c) also, they thought the ARG was a marketing stunt. While there might be some weight to that claim, I don't it. It was a nice way of building hype and getting a community of gamers to reach a common goal, like, oh, idk, A GAME!

Overall, the bitching is bullshit, so to all the whiners who won't read this, and the very few that do, ahem:

[Dèx]

[John Magnum]

There's also some pretty stupid bitching about how the graphics are suddenly TOTALLY AWFUL and clearly evidence of a console port and you can prove it by saving and noting that a "Please do not turn off your console" message pops up. Also, apparently, the FOV is locked at 90 and you can't change it with console commands.

Almost as much of a gamebreaker as the fact that the game is actually broken and unplayable for me.

[Nikki Wolf]

The FOV is always 90 degrees in every Source game, so that's to be expected IMO. I don't see why people are bitching about FOV in Portal 2 when it's a puzzle game, not a shooter.

[GoDM1N]

People bitching is a good thing, Its quality control and its needed for capitalism to work. Personally I love the game, but I can understand people being upset because the game DOESN'T WORK on their computers or consoles. The only thing I think they should of done is delayed the console version like a lot of console devs do with the PC versions of their game so they could get their main version stable, and then deal with the console problems.

[BoB Dolen]

People bitching is a good thing, Its quality control and its needed for capitalism to work.

I'm fine with bitching when its at least logical or not some entitlement issue.

[Harri]

1) Robot store: general complaints are based around the fact that it merely exists. Yeah, I won't lie, I groan slightly when I saw it, but at this point it shouldn't be a surprise. Valve and the various community contributors have made tons of money with what boils down to a couple models. I personally don't consider a hat DLC, because it is not new content, I just a new hat. You don't need it, and it does not turn TF2 into a Play 2 Win game. Most of the stuff you can get for free anyway.

I agree with this bitching. I hate that valve is opening up stores in games. I don't like the idea, and I feel that it's a money hog. Valve used to be so cheap and considerate with money. EA is a whore, and valve is falling into it's terrible clutches.

Another major issue I have with Portal 2 is- where the fuck is my HL2/E3. I want them to deliver on what they have promised.

[BoB Dolen]

I agree with this bitching. I hate that valve is opening up stores in games. I don't like the idea, and I feel that it's a money hog. Valve used to be so cheap and considerate with money. EA is a whore, and valve is falling into it's terrible clutches.

Not sure why people seem to dislike how the market has changed......guess people still fear change.

Another major issue I have with Portal 2 is- where the fuck is my HL2/E3. I want them to deliver on what they have promised.

They always deliver in time.

[Harri]

Not sure why people seem to dislike how the market has changed......guess people still fear change.

It's not a fear of change. In-game stores are just a way to gain money off of a game that is already expensive. I bought TF2 in the orange box, the price was fantastic. I bought the orange box for less than the price of Portal 2. The items in these stores are useless for the overall game play. And in TF2, the items are close to hacks for players that lack real skill.

How much of this money, from these stores, does valve keep? EA is a horrible company. No one with any intelligence can argue against that.

[WHAMbulance]

Well you can look at from an entirely different point of view. While I personally think Hats/Mann Co. are incredibly stupid, it's also brilliant at the same time.

Valve managed to make an entire economy that runs off hats. Not only is Valve raking in money from everybody who buys hats, now there's real money changing hands between players.

All for a intangible hat model that has no effect on anything.

Valve 1 000 000 000, Gamers 0

[John Magnum]

And in TF2, the items are close to hacks for players that lack real skill.

are we playing the same TF2

[Harri]

And in TF2, the items are close to hacks for players that lack real skill.

are we playing the same TF2

TF2 was already unbalanced. Items like the powerjack, the saharan spy pack, the croc-o-style kit etc,. are basically cheats. Valve should be concentrating on the game balance and less time on gaining money through selling such items.

I like the idea that valve has created an economy. Players can spend and gain money in the store. It should not be made at the expense of over-powered items. I am not raging, I consistently gain mvp on our servers and others with or without players using these items. I do not use items outside of the valve release. I simply feel that bad players should not be rewarded with the option to buy skill.


Of course this is all being stated in a thread titled "I've never seen so much pointless bitching." I realize my opinion will be labeled as bitching. But don't we all.

[GoDM1N]

Well you can look at from an entirely different point of view. While I personally think Hats/Mann Co. are incredibly stupid, it's also brilliant at the same time.

Valve managed to make an entire economy that runs off hats. Not only is Valve raking in money from everybody who buys hats, now there's real money changing hands between players.

All for a intangible hat model that has no effect on anything.

Valve 1 000 000 000, Gamers 0

No one is forcing anyone to use the stores. Assuming everyone hated them they wouldn't exist because they would of been pulled as a failed idea but they're not a failed idea because there are enough people who want the items enough to pay for them. So Valve gets to make some extra money, gamers get the item they want which makes it Valve 500,000,000, Gamers 500,000,000. A win, win.

Items like the powerjack, the saharan spy pack, the croc-o-style kit etc,. are basically cheats.

Lolwut?

The Axtinguisher is better than the power jack, the spy set has tons of draw backs that keeps the spy from doing a lot of things such as taking out sentries , and the Croc-o-Style set keeps a sniper from head shoting people which is his main source of killing non-snipers

[Harri]

Lolwut?

The Axtinguisher is better than the power jack, the spy set has tons of draw backs that keeps the spy from doing a lot of things such as taking out sentries , and the Croc-o-Style set keeps a sniper from head shoting people which is his main source of killing non-snipers

I'm not saying you have to agree with me. I'm pointing out that these items should only exist as a frivolous purchase and not offer any form of buff/debuff. This is my own opinion. It goes for portal 2 as well, in the future for co-op play. I have always laughed at people who bought game sharks and such. I view these items with buffs/debuffs as the same. I fully understand that complaining about it here will not change others opinion or stop valve from offering such items.

I'm sorry if I'm pissing yous guys off.

:3

[GoDM1N]

I'm sorry if I'm pissing yous guys off.

:3

Cant say for John, but I'm not pissed, just don't agree

[Amplify]

Fuck FaN scout.

[John Magnum]

Yeah, I'm not pissed off, I just think you're wrong when you say the Mann Co Store allows people to buy skill.

[VoltySquirrel]

And in TF2, the items are close to hacks for players that lack real skill.

are we playing the same TF2

TF2 was already unbalanced. Items like the powerjack, the saharan spy pack, the croc-o-style kit etc,. are basically cheats. Valve should be concentrating on the game balance and less time on gaining money through selling such items.

I like the idea that valve has created an economy. Players can spend and gain money in the store. It should not be made at the expense of over-powered items. I am not raging, I consistently gain mvp on our servers and others with or without players using these items. I do not use items outside of the valve release. I simply feel that bad players should not be rewarded with the option to buy skill.


Of course this is all being stated in a thread titled "I've never seen so much pointless bitching." I realize my opinion will be labeled as bitching. But don't we all.

Actually, I woldn't consider that bitching. Those are legitimate complaints towards the game. Really, I wrote the OP because I was tired of all the whining and complaining about stuff that doesn't actually affect one's enjoyment of Portal 2. You have an issue with non-cosmetic items that you consider cheat codes. That is a concern that, while I don't agree with, is weighted. Most people were just mad that that the store existed, never mind the fact that all the items in there are cosmetic and don't actually have an effect on gameplay. Oh, and, btw, EA isn't Valve publisher or anything like that, all they do is manage retail games. They have no say in the marketing or development of any Valve game.

[Harri]

Actually, I woldn't consider that bitching. Those are legitimate complaints towards the game. Really, I wrote the OP because I was tired of all the whining and complaining about stuff that doesn't actually affect one's enjoyment of Portal 2. You have an issue with non-cosmetic items that you consider cheat codes. That is a concern that, while I don't agree with, is weighted. Most people were just mad that that the store existed, never mind the fact that all the items in there are cosmetic and don't actually have an effect on gameplay. Oh, and, btw, EA isn't Valve publisher or anything like that, all they do is manage retail games. They have no say in the marketing or development of any Valve game.

If a publisher doesn't manage the distribution of retail games, then what is a publisher?

[VoltySquirrel]

Actually, I woldn't consider that bitching. Those are legitimate complaints towards the game. Really, I wrote the OP because I was tired of all the whining and complaining about stuff that doesn't actually affect one's enjoyment of Portal 2. You have an issue with non-cosmetic items that you consider cheat codes. That is a concern that, while I don't agree with, is weighted. Most people were just mad that that the store existed, never mind the fact that all the items in there are cosmetic and don't actually have an effect on gameplay. Oh, and, btw, EA isn't Valve publisher or anything like that, all they do is manage retail games. They have no say in the marketing or development of any Valve game.

If a publisher doesn't manage the distribution of retail games, then what is a publisher?

Valve handles all the digital stuff and the overall release and marketing of their game, while EA handles retail because that's what they know. The typically publisher funds the game and has a say overwhat does and does not go into the final product, of if the game gets made at all. i'm also going to take a wild guess and say that most of Valve's revenue comes from digital sales, so really, EA is just there so Valve doesn't need to manage another aspect of their releases. It's the equlvalent of a drug dealer. He's just a smaller guy who moves the product while the head honcho manages every other aspect, with EA being the drug dealer.

[GoDM1N]

with EA being the drug dealer.

I always knew EA were pushers

[Vivi Hill]

Yeah, I don't see how people are complaining either. I guess it's their failure to comprehend the reasons paid DLC is hated. I had a very good experience of this when I had Halo 2 for console. Had to buy a new map pack, because otherwise the amount of lobbies open to me was tiny and I was missing a lot of the game.

Valve still does it right. Nothing they offer can't be procured by playing the game, and even so, it's not like they're unlocking more advanced challenges for money.

And finally, they didn't spoil the game by giving players ways to customize Chell. They kept it for multiplayer only, allowing for you to keep immersion for the main storyline.

[VoltySquirrel]

I had a very good experience of this when I had Halo 2 for console. Had to buy a new map pack, because otherwise the amount of lobbies open to me was tiny and I was missing a lot of the game.

It actually got worse as time went on. At least in Halo 2 they eventually made the map packs free. In the 3rd game, only 1 was made available to all, people who bought ODST were the only people in most ranked playlist for a long time (due to them getting mythic ahead of time), and Reach has yet to make one free at all. Call of Duty does it best, whereas in those games, if you don't own a particular map pack, those maps were disabled during matchmaking. That way, there wasn't a split player base.

[GoDM1N]

I had a very good experience of this when I had Halo 2 for console. Had to buy a new map pack, because otherwise the amount of lobbies open to me was tiny and I was missing a lot of the game.

It actually got worse as time went on. At least in Halo 2 they eventually made the map packs free. In the 3rd game, only 1 was made available to all, people who bought ODST were the only people in most ranked playlist for a long time (due to them getting mythic ahead of time), and Reach has yet to make one free at all. Call of Duty does it best, whereas in those games, if you don't own a particular map pack, those maps were disabled during matchmaking. That way, there wasn't a split player base.

No CS, HLDM, DoD and TF2 did it best. If theres a map you don't have you DL it from the server :3

[VoltySquirrel]

I had a very good experience of this when I had Halo 2 for console. Had to buy a new map pack, because otherwise the amount of lobbies open to me was tiny and I was missing a lot of the game.

It actually got worse as time went on. At least in Halo 2 they eventually made the map packs free. In the 3rd game, only 1 was made available to all, people who bought ODST were the only people in most ranked playlist for a long time (due to them getting mythic ahead of time), and Reach has yet to make one free at all. Call of Duty does it best, whereas in those games, if you don't own a particular map pack, those maps were disabled during matchmaking. That way, there wasn't a split player base.

No CS, HLDM, DoD and TF2 did it best. If theres a map you don't have you DL it from the server :3

True, but that is on the superior platform, were talking about teh exbawx here.

[HibiscusKazeneko]

Yeah, I don't see how people are complaining either. I guess it's their failure to comprehend the reasons paid DLC is hated.

It's hated because it's thought to feed addiction. China has already banned minors from conducting microtransactions and here in the US, organizations like Common Sense Media and the Campaign for a Commercial-Free Childhood are pushing for them to be outlawed outright.

[xbawkzes]

I agree with this bitching. I hate that valve is opening up stores in games. I don't like the idea, and I feel that it's a money hog. Valve used to be so cheap and considerate with money. EA is a whore, and valve is falling into it's terrible clutches

You're giving EA way too much credit. EA aren't smart enough to open up a store within a game which earns it's contributors so much money they don't need to have a job any more. Valve are just doing exactly what they've always been doing, going along with things that will work.

They knew people would buy the stuff and people have. It earns Valve money, and y'know, can't make good shit without good money. You don't need to buy the stuff, and Valve aren't forcing anybody to, ever. It's just another great idea from the company that does everything golden. If EA had touched Portal 2, you'd probably have had to pay MORE for the co-op.

[BoB Dolen]

I agree with this bitching. I hate that valve is opening up stores in games. I don't like the idea, and I feel that it's a money hog. Valve used to be so cheap and considerate with money. EA is a whore, and valve is falling into it's terrible clutches

You're giving EA way too much credit. EA aren't smart enough to open up a store within a game which earns it's contributors so much money they don't need to have a job any more. Valve are just doing exactly what they've always been doing, going along with things that will work.

They knew people would buy the stuff and people have. It earns Valve money, and y'know, can't make good shit without good money. You don't need to buy the stuff, and Valve aren't forcing anybody to, ever. It's just another great idea from the company that does everything golden. If EA had touched Portal 2, you'd probably have had to pay MORE for the co-op.

Don't forget how the modelers got paid out from their work in the store also......don't see that everyday

[VoltySquirrel]

I agree with this bitching. I hate that valve is opening up stores in games. I don't like the idea, and I feel that it's a money hog. Valve used to be so cheap and considerate with money. EA is a whore, and valve is falling into it's terrible clutches

You're giving EA way too much credit. EA aren't smart enough to open up a store within a game which earns it's contributors so much money they don't need to have a job any more. Valve are just doing exactly what they've always been doing, going along with things that will work.

They knew people would buy the stuff and people have. It earns Valve money, and y'know, can't make good shit without good money. You don't need to buy the stuff, and Valve aren't forcing anybody to, ever. It's just another great idea from the company that does everything golden. If EA had touched Portal 2, you'd probably have had to pay MORE for the co-op.

Don't forget how the modelers got paid out from their work in the store also......don't see that everyday

He already stated that BoB.

[BoB Dolen]

He already stated that BoB.

My bad was eating and watching Hot tub time machine when I replied.

[VoltySquirrel]

He already stated that BoB.

My bad was eating and watching Hot tub time machine when I replied.

Fucking great movie.

[VoltySquirrel]

It got worse. This just shows how entitled little whiny shits some Valve fans are. Because they didn't get the perfect experience and all kinds of other bullshit, they bombed the game's Metacritic page.
http://www.destructoid.com/valve-fans-whine-and-cry-about-portal-2-like-idiots-199220.phtml


Why? Because if one gets too much of a nice thing, we expect nothing but nice things.

[Hatred]

here is a solution to the store ... DONT USE IT IF YOU DONT LIKE IT ! .....

that being said ....

ppl bitching about the graphics wtf .... i can play with everything maxed including anti-aliasing and anistropic filtering ..... it looks awsome ..... ppl should just realize that you can get 2 nvidia cards for the same price as 1 ATI ... and each of those cards are so minorly worse you could never tell the difference and u get 2 .... + SLI = not framrate (well a little but human eye can only see 70 fps anyways so who cares) but the ability to make games way more eye candy .... thats the fix for that ....

all in all Portal 2 looks awsome if your not stupid

PS. yes ATI does make stronger cards im not arguing that but why pay $250 for a card when you can get 2 for $250 and actualy tell the difference .... ATI just exploits most ppl are stupid

[John Magnum]

What the hell are you talking about? What Nvidia cards are comparable to ATi cards but cost half as much? Are you seriously saying there's a GeForce card for $125 that's almost comparable to a 6950 1GB?
Ridiculous. When you compare like-for-like cards, especially in the midrange of $100 to $250, ATi reliably has better pricing options.

[GoDM1N]

ppl bitching about the graphics wtf .... i can play with everything maxed including anti-aliasing and anistropic filtering ..... it looks awsome ..... ppl should just realize that you can get 2 nvidia cards for the same price as 1 ATI ... and each of those cards are so minorly worse you could never tell the difference and u get 2 .... + SLI = not framrate (well a little but human eye can only see 70 fps anyways so who cares) but the ability to make games way more eye candy .... thats the fix for that ....

Lolwut?

[Hatred]

What the hell are you talking about? What Nvidia cards are comparable to ATi cards but cost half as much? Are you seriously saying there's a GeForce card for $125 that's almost comparable to a 6950 1GB?
Ridiculous. When you compare like-for-like cards, especially in the midrange of $100 to $250, ATi reliably has better pricing options.

i got 2 nvidia 450 gts 1gb for $250 a few monthes ago not the newest modles but close enough (yes brand new)

this is a post from bit tech from a steam survey "The Steam Survey also indicates that the uptake of HD 5700-series cards hasn’t been great"

Nvidia GeForce GTS 450 Review. Nvidia's latest DX11 GPU squares up against ATI's HD 5770, but there's a surprise third option... is prolly the equal but there is barely and differance between 5700 and 6000 for ati just like any GPU ... a couple of minor differences dont make any difference on actual gaming .. and the ati card is $50 more on new-egg and tiger direct ... save $100 and get the same thing except maybe 10 shaders and small stuff like that .... worth $100 ... no .... and getting 1 expensive card wont let you crank every graphic option like crossfire or SLI does ....

[Maringue]

While I enjoy a good spirited discussion about the pros and cons of various aspects of Portal 2, I'd like to address the premise of this thread: ie why people are bitching about the game on the internet.

My first question is: what internet have you been using where people don't bitch about everything?
And to sum up, here is a very succinct description of the internet:

What the fuck it the internet?

Oh, and there's more:
[youtube=tVzGM99ZIMQ&NR=1]All you motherfuckers are going to pay[/youtube]
Oh, and this is just because I AM the clit commander.

[John Magnum]

Are you seriously saying that there is only a minor teensy difference between a single 450 and a single 6950, and that therefore you got a really great deal by getting 2x450 for the same price as a single 6950? I'm actually asking, because I can barely even tell what you're trying to say.

As a random aside, because you seem to be pretty keen on SLI and Crossfire, you should note that ATI's Crossfire scales at least as well as if not better than SLI.

[Hatred]

i am saying that the human eye can only see tops 70 fps so anything more is pointless ... and that as far as portal 2 goes if your bitching about graphics you can get a alright deal by thinking about quality instead of fps .... crossfire OR SLI is what increases that ... thats all .... and nvidia makes simalar cards for a way lower price ... ATI does make better cards but for too much $ in comparison .... esspesialy if you have a AMD CPU cause it is partnered with ATI and nvidia .. partner = better compatability ... thats all

[Hatred]

Are you seriously saying that there is only a minor teensy difference between a single 450 and a single 6950, and that therefore you got a really great deal by getting 2x450 for the same price as a single 6950? I'm actually asking, because I can barely even tell what you're trying to say.

As a random aside, because you seem to be pretty keen on SLI and Crossfire, you should note that ATI's Crossfire scales at least as well as if not better than SLI.

and i know crossfire is as good just SLI is = but cheaper

[John Magnum]

Okay, you're just incorrect. Nvidia does not make similar cards for a way lower price. The Nvidia cards that are very very nearly equal in power to ATI cards are very very nearly equal in price. At pretty much every level. The 460 1GB and the 6870 1GB perform almost identically and cost almost exactly the same. Same goes for the 580 and the 6990. Same goes for pretty much any like-for-like comparison.

It's just not true that there's this trend of "ATI is a bit more powerful but WAY more expensive than Nvidia". That may have been true at some point in the past, but it absolutely isn't now.

[Hatred]

lol u like intel too dont u ?

i guess nvidia and ATI are as different as canda is to USA ... we may be side be side but we both think we are better even though we both suck ....

rofl

BTW my origonal point was about SLI or CROSSFIRE being better than just 1 card for visual goodness

[John Magnum]

Okay? Duh? Yes, SLI and Crossfire are great. Two 5770s in Crossfire are better than two 450s in SLI, though. And both give very, very similar performance to what you would get for a single $250 card.

[Hatred]

... i think u missed the point ..... in some ways 1 card is better than the other 1 isnt just only better than the other .... both have there assets and flaws ... nothing can change that ... get over it u like ATI i like nvidia .... ppl take numbers way to seriously .... ATI overclocks better but nvidia is more stable ... most websites say so just not that simply .... if u have to overclock to get better results to make u feel happy good for u .... i like a stable system over not anyday

i think we should agree that portal 2 is awsome and thats it ....

PS. this pointless bitching in the i've never seen so much pointless bitching thread is epic

[GoDM1N]

BTW my origonal point was about SLI or CROSSFIRE being better than just 1 card for visual goodness

Actually this isn't true. Its ALWAYS better to get 1 really good card vs two mid ranged or low end cards to equal one good card. The reason for this is there is a upgrade path later, that being SLi or CFX. That said generally SLi and CFX scaling sucks and is also followed by problems like multi scoping (I forgot what its called but basically it causes the screen to jump every few secs and makes some games unplayable) Only until recently have SLi and CFX been worth using money wise. This was due to gains as low as %30 and sometimes 0% or even in some cases -50%.

Personally I don't think SLi or CFX is worth it unless you get a equal percent of gain of what you paid for the original card. Eg, you found a 2nd GTX460 for 30% off, and you had a gain of 70%, ofc the more gain the better but imo it was worth the money. If you were to buy two GTX460s at the same price and you only had a 50% gain from SLi, 25% (which could be $100 or more) of that money was wasted for no gain, so you've basically paid the same amount for half the card. Even with a equal gain this doesn't mean you'll always get the same performance simply because not all games support SLi or CFX well, and it backfires in some games and you actually get worse performance.

Now back to a single card. A single card (assuming its not a dual GPU card) will always get the same performance so you are getting what you paid for and wont have any of the screen jumping/scaling problems a SLi or CFX can have. On top of that, later on say 1 - 3 years later if you think its time for a upgrade you could, instead of buying two new cheaper cards or one of the new GPUs on the market that would costs another $300, you could buy a 2nd card that would have been marked down by that point making SLi and CFX a $150 or less upgrade

So no, buying two cheaper cards isn't better than buying one good card

[Hatred]

i think u missed the point also .... human eay can only see 70 fps max that why when u tyrn you head fast there is motion blur .... having more is a waste ... and wait what skipping ? for the first couple weeks my comp was acting wierd but stopped .... my point was getting 2 cards ment you could crank all the eye candy options and not loose fps like u do with 1 ... that is the whole perpose of 2 cards ... so if ppl bitch about graphics its a way better idea to get 2 slightly worse cards than 1 realy good ... providing u have a decent power supply ... and my old nvidia 8600 could play any game i wanted to date with reasonable graphics except gothic 4 (for a good reason those games are made for only the best systems) ... u can get a nvidia 8600 for like $20 ... 1 card of i higher number is "better" yes and a few years later will still do just fine ... but same goes for a bit of a worse card .... the difference ill still have eye candy ... and other ppl will only have 100+fps .... might as well turn v-sync on and get mouse lag (kidding).... i could have got 1 card yes and the numbers are higher but i wanted a upgrade to make things look better not make my already smooth computer .... smoother ? hmmm it couldnt have gotten smoother ...

PS. even though having more than 70 fps is pointless mine hasent dropped below 80 with all graphics maxed including AA and anistropic filtering ... except every once inna while when a arrow hits me in the head in TF2 ... dont know why

[John Magnum]

I have no idea how you think it's possible that one upgrade path will only upgrade your FPS, while another upgrade path will actually improve the qualitative visual composition of a shot. I mean, the entire point of having a more powerful card is that you can run a game with higher settings and get the same framerates, not that you'll upgrade massively and stick with medium settings and 200 FPS. It's almost impossible to tell what you're saying because you don't really seem to understand what upgrading a graphics card does.

And Godmin, I think these days SLI and Crossfire scaling tends to be in the 80%-95% range, which is pretty dang impressive. It's not always worth the hassle at the price ranges where you have a comparably-priced single-card option, but for stuff in the $300+ range where there are very few single-card options, two cards can be a vastly better cost/value proposition than a single more expensive card.

[Hatred]

i still think you guys are missing my point completly ... for ppl who want better image quality sli or sroddfire is the choice u want ... if u want a card that will be better longer get 1 .... my 2 will last me 4-5 years at a much higher image quality ... im happy with that 1 would prolly last 8-9 before u actually need a new one

and ya i do know ... you get more shaders more GPU power and better ram ... means a smoother game ...

what do u think upgrading means

[John Magnum]

It means a smoother game, or it means that you can get the same framerate at higher resolutions or settings. Since two cards in SLI/CF perform about the same as one single card that costs twice as much, you get the exact same image quality with the two options. If the two setups have nearly the same performance, you can choose whether you get higher image quality and solid framerate or lower image quality and ultra-high framerate. You can pick lower settings on a two-GPU setup to get a higher framerate. And you can pick higher settings on a single-GPU setup to get better visual quality at the same framerate. I have no idea whatsoever how you think "two GPUs = better image quality, same framerate" and "one GPU = same image quality, better framerate", because that's idiotic.

[Hatred]

1 GPU is set to physX and 1 is set to other tasks .... turn your AA and filtering to max with 1680x1050 and all other setting on max and get a solid 80 fps ?

and wtf portal 2 i was so thinking i was gonna get to fight co-op boss and there wasnt ... still great fun though

[GoDM1N]

1 GPU is set to physX and 1 is set to other tasks .... turn your AA and filtering to max with 1680x1050 and all other setting on max and get a solid 80 fps ?

and wtf portal 2 i was so thinking i was gonna get to fight co-op boss and there wasnt ... still great fun though

Yes and you can get the same performance with the single more powerful card... Also physX is FAR from a reason to buy two cards instead of a single more powerful card because so few games actually use it.

[Hatred]

physX isnt only reason i get more shaders more ram and a second GPU and everytime i have got just 1 realy good graphics card i have been dissapointed later reading things like ten models before only have 20 less shaders barely a difference in GPU power and only a real ram difference (btw that was when i still bought ATI AGP ... and i know nvidia does the same) ... i was just saying thats how mine is set up i leave settings like that at default most of the time .... and i have never seen anyone with 1 card max out every setting on an new games

[GoDM1N]

physX isnt only reason i get more shaders more ram and a second GPU and everytime i have got just 1 realy good graphics card i have been dissapointed later reading things like ten models before only have 20 less shaders barely a difference in GPU power and only a real ram difference (btw that was when i still bought ATI AGP ... and i know nvidia does the same) ... i was just saying thats how mine is set up i leave settings like that at default most of the time .... and i have never seen anyone with 1 card max out every setting on an new games

I have a HD 5850 and I'm maxing out everything that comes out atm. Saying a single card cant max out games is VERY laughable

[Hatred]

then explain to me 1 thing ?

why is ATI 5770 better than a ATI 5970 ?

thats a serious question also read about 12 reviews that all said the same thing

[GoDM1N]

why is ATI 5770 better than a ATI 5970 ?

Its not. because a 5970 is 2 5870s and 5770 is weaker than one 5870, let alone two.

I'm not saying a one card setup is more powerful than a two card setup no matter what GPUs we're comparing. What I'm saying is one high end card is better than two weaker cards that get the same performance as the high end card because theres a upgrade path and fewer problems

[Harri]

It's nice to see some pointless bitching in the pointless bitching thread XDXD

[GoDM1N]

It's nice to see some pointless bitching in the pointless bitching thread XDXD

Whos bitching? I'm just talking tech

[Hatred]

im loving this 2 different opinions neither wrong but talking about stuff...

and thanks to this talk i found out on top of N-boost for my SLI i can use SLI AA and boost it to x64 ! lol then that let me find out about X12 SLI transparency AA ... (AA = anti-aliasing)

im all about the image quality i dont pay many games cant afford to.... so instead of getting a card that would make those games i tried a solution to specificaly target image quality ....

i think godmin plays lots of diff games hence his need to have a card that lets him play them well ... i dont think either of us are wrong just different ...

and volty i love the pointless bitching thread <3