Pyros deserve smoke bombs!

[SpoonFox]

They have smoke grenades on their suits... But later on with the announcement of flare guns, people claimed them to be flares :< But seriously, they have triggers (unlike some things... *coughrocketlaunchercough*) So it'd be a neat implement as a secondary... Smoke bomb flare gun thing... Shoots a non-lethal grenade that causes smoke, making it harder to see in specified places

[Sirnak]

I agree. It's an interesting idea.

I'm just afraid of abuses. Pyros can fight pretty easily even if they don't see anything thanks to their spy-killing flames. Killing by randomly spouting fire in smoke clouds could be too easy. What's good about this idea though is that these smoke bombs could be as useful for your teamates as for your enemies depending on how you use them... Which would give a bit more strategy to think about for Pyro players.

Overall, I don't know what to think. o.o

But I'd really like to see new weapons with all-new skills for every TF2 class. I'd like to see a wall-climbing spy (unable to become invisible) or a turret Engineer (he'd have a turret as seen in Portal instead of his normal sentry)...

Smoke bombs seem worthy to be playtested though. That's what I think.

[LegendarySurgeon]

Grenade type weapons are something that is slowly being reintroduced to the game. They were present in the first TF and slowly many classes are gaining consumable secondary items such as Mad Milk and Jarate and more broadly the scout and heavy's lunchbox items. The soldier and demo each do explosive output normally and they probably don't need more of it. In terms of secondaries with limited use the soldier has banners and the demoman has his Targe. Replacing the Pyro's shotgun with a cooldown timer smoke grenade might be a legitimate weapon. For other classes I'd expect to see things like a throwable sapper that replaces your normal sapper for the spy; some kind of healing grenade for medic that replaces your syringe gun; A mini-sentry that you can throw to deploy (possibly one that constantly loses health and can't be repaired) to replace the engy's pistol.

[Hatred]

i still want my flame sentry .... lvl 3 doesnt have rockets but has fire .... put around a corner and suprize instead of the same old gameplay .... maybe a little faster turn speed ...

[Sirnak]

Grenade type weapons are something that is slowly being reintroduced to the game. They were present in the first TF and slowly many classes are gaining consumable secondary items such as Mad Milk and Jarate and more broadly the scout and heavy's lunchbox items. The soldier and demo each do explosive output normally and they probably don't need more of it. In terms of secondaries with limited use the soldier has banners and the demoman has his Targe. Replacing the Pyro's shotgun with a cooldown timer smoke grenade might be a legitimate weapon. For other classes I'd expect to see things like a throwable sapper that replaces your normal sapper for the spy; some kind of healing grenade for medic that replaces your syringe gun; A mini-sentry that you can throw to deploy (possibly one that constantly loses health and can't be repaired) to replace the engy's pistol.

A throwable sapper? Like in the Meet the Spy vid? That'd be awesome. But... Sounds kinda strong. It needs a weakness. What kind of disadvantage would it have?

Hmm... Oh, I know. The sentry wouldn't be damaged anymore, it would only be disabled. Sounds fair to me. o.o

[SpoonFox]

There's ability mods out there that spawned our new weapons.

The sniper's pissgun was part of one of the ability mods. Removed Jarate and sniper's shots caused the target to get jarated.
The new Flare Gun that can detonate is also from the same mod, which was 'Flare Firework'. Right clicking with it exploded prematurely.
I want the ability to croutch as a pyro with backburner and turn into a barrel like those ability mods :B DERP! (Would make me actually use the backburner for once!!!)


But smoke bombs would be effective for strategy and keep snipers from 'omfgcamping' (The idiot snipers who are actually PRONE to getting backstabbed alot... )

It's very doable in a mod too!
Flare alternate fire, consume x4 ammo, fires a non-damage flare that creates Smoke Entity for 10-20 seconds. Cool down of 10-20 seconds.

[doppelganger]

Personally I don't think that Valve will ever fully implement grenades into TF2 like the former versions... it was such a huge change and so many people complained when the game came out that they must have been pretty convinced in their reasoning. From my perspective, I believe that this was an attempt to preserver the Demo's integrity... if everyone had grenades a grenade launcher might be a little less useful (however I did love their det packs that could blow out walls and gates).

Back onto subject, smoke grenade would be a cool idea for Pyro. And I think it'd be great for pyro's close combat abilities. If it weren't too big of an area you could still blow the hell out of it and kill him.

[SpoonFox]

Would be very interesting if a pyro could AIRBLAST the grenade/smoke entity (Even enemy pyros)

[Sirnak]

Would be very interesting if a pyro could AIRBLAST the grenade/smoke entity (Even enemy pyros)

To airblast the smoke sounds like a great countermesure!

But I wonder if the Source engine can make it possible to push smoke...?

[SpoonFox]

Would be very interesting if a pyro could AIRBLAST the grenade/smoke entity (Even enemy pyros)

To airblast the smoke sounds like a great countermesure!

But I wonder if the Source engine can make it possible to push smoke...?

That's easy! Entity Physics, just make it so that the entity can be pushed by a specified type of output (Airblast)

[Argent]

TF2 did have grenades in alpha testing, which is why so many model sketches have grenades on their armor, but if you've played games with nades as a universal tool, you know a common tactic is just to toss a 'nade around a corner, then take out the weakened enemies without their being aware, and that trick is hard for new players to master. Valve discovered when making the game that players "Had more fun" with the grenades removed, and I do quote.

[SpoonFox]

TF2 did have grenades in alpha testing, which is why so many model sketches have grenades on their armor, but if you've played games with nades as a universal tool, you know a common tactic is just to toss a 'nade around a corner, then take out the weakened enemies without their being aware, and that trick is hard for new players to master. Valve discovered when making the game that players "Had more fun" with the grenades removed, and I do quote.

Refer to soldier/demo doing that alot even an achievement for popping pills off walls into corners and killing people.

Anyways, smoke 'nades are non-lethal! it could totally work!

[Mike808]

if you played tfc then nades are a no no

[SpoonFox]

Never played TFC, and these are non-lethal, and you could do it via the 'jarate' fashion.

[LegendarySurgeon]

A throwable sapper? Like in the Meet the Spy vid? That'd be awesome. But... Sounds kinda strong. It needs a weakness. What kind of disadvantage would it have?

Hmm... Oh, I know. The sentry wouldn't be damaged anymore, it would only be disabled. Sounds fair to me. o.o

My thought was that it would work just like a normal sapper but you only have 1 and it would take time to recharge // you have to get ammo.

[Argent]

A throwable sapper? Like in the Meet the Spy vid? That'd be awesome. But... Sounds kinda strong. It needs a weakness. What kind of disadvantage would it have?

Hmm... Oh, I know. The sentry wouldn't be damaged anymore, it would only be disabled. Sounds fair to me. o.o

My thought was that it would work just like a normal sapper but you only have 1 and it would take time to recharge // you have to get ammo.

It would probably need more HP than the normal sapper, since spies usually use between 3 and 25 sappers per op, and would just naturally drop their sentry-dumping powers a ton by having to wait between saps if the first one failed, also if you toss it, the sap wouldn't be instant, so you'd be unable to stab&sap those lvl 3 sentries. Would only be useful in that case if it took 3-4 wrench wacks to remove, to toss the sapper, and give you time to get in there and try to take out the engie.

[Toaster]

They're incendiary grenades if I remember correctly.

(Using TFC as reference)

[Mangachu]

pretty sure there were smoke grenades for the pyro
people hated them

[SpoonFox]

Awww Too much hate in the community (Towards pyros)

Anyways...

About the sapper thing, in the ability mod you could throw a sapper (At first it used your sapper and it had to recharge, was removed)
The sapper did about... I dunno... 50% a level 3 Sentry's HP worth of damage to -all- machines in range and uncloaked spies in the range too. (There was a bug where it uncloaked even friendly spies! O_O)

[Rustic Apple]

Smoke grenades have been suggested over 9000 times on SPUF, with all of them being shot down because of grief-ability. Toss one in a friendly Sniper's nest, go back to resupply, repeat. An idea I had (but never posted anywhere) was a Smoke Grenade in the form of a can of Hair Spray (which I called "The Heckler's Hairspray"), which gave a 35% damage de-buff to enemies in range, and started doing damage if they stood in range for more then 2 seconds. To prevent griefing, friendlies would see an Amputator-esque ring, instead of the smoke.

Also, the throwable sapper sounds gewd.

[SpoonFox]

Smoke grenades have been suggested over 9000 times on SPUF, with all of them being shot down because of grief-ability. Toss one in a friendly Sniper's nest, go back to resupply, repeat. An idea I had (but never posted anywhere) was a Smoke Grenade in the form of a can of Hair Spray (which I called "The Heckler's Hairspray"), which gave a 35% damage de-buff to enemies in range, and started doing damage if they stood in range for more then 2 seconds. To prevent griefing, friendlies would see an Amputator-esque ring, instead of the smoke.

Also, the throwable sapper sounds gewd.

I can see the griefing, but that can be remedied with the same function of the charge'n targe, don't let it refill at cabinents. Anyways, I can see a flare gun itself with a right click of smoke bomb like sandman has. I can also see various positives and negatives. Besides, if you want to grief a sniper, just tell the enemy spies where he is "Sniper in the box, oh wait, that's our sniper. Tehee!" >.> had it happen to me once long long ago when I was still getting sniper achievements.

Also, the throwable sapper is highly -possible- that it maybe implemented. Most of the ability mod weapons are already being added as -real- weapons. I WANT MY PYRO BARREL DAMMIT!