Team Stacking

[doppelganger]

We've all seen it, especially on Slaybox II, but none of us do anything about it. Sometimes it's worse, sometimes it's better, but regardless of efficiency, does it make it right? Not only does it rape the server, it effects the community as a whole. It also could be considered an exploit considering there have been means to prevent the ability to choose what team you are on... although currently limited, they are indeed there. Well, here are some screenshots throughout a match I just played.







A little note here, Hard Ass Admin is our beloved FailHorse, and Hard Ass Oompa was some new recruit of sort, having just put that tag on at the beginning of the map.

The next map didn't go any better.

[Vivi Hill]

You, Surgeon and Jack Salad are all regulars. Still, does seem a little stacky. Then again, we have an autobalancer thing on Slaybox 1.

[doppelganger]

But we are not all in the same clan, plus I always switch to the losing team if it seems unfair (which I had done in this case from the very beginning). The team scramble only works if you win too many times in a row, which on Turbine, 2 wins ends the match, or if you win too fast, so they didn't completely roll me this time. As far as the random team select at the beginning, all one has to do is wait for there to be more people on the one team than the other and then click to bypass it.

[rawkies]

You, Surgeon and Jack Salad are all regulars. Still, does seem a little stacky. Then again, we have an autobalancer thing on Slaybox 1.

I think he was talking about all the Hard Asses up on the BLU scoreboard.

[Vivi Hill]

Sorry I meant the autojoiner that chooses your team for you.

[tehs4ndman]

this is silly... and failhorse isnt even with us
thought i should add qq

[rawkies]

this is silly... and failhorse isnt even with us
thought i should add qq

Yes, please, be more provocative. That's exactly what this community needs.

[Take That!!]

I agree, team stacking has really gotten out of hand.

[Mike808]

slay box one has an auto team selection thing so it auto stacked that one round by luck.

and Oompa isnt a hard ass, i asked him to remove the tag cause he was talking poorly to almost everyone in the server and we dont like that
(only vince does that but hes french and we yell at him to shut up though vent)
and hard ass' doesnt stack like before, if the auto balancer kicks in we dont switch teams to stack. and you had 2 hardass' on your team and we had 3 so its not "stacked", just the pubbers in our team actually knew what they were doing when the other team's did not

and our team was made up of almost all offensive classes and had 3 medics. your team is half/half for offense and support and basically no medics

[Failhorse]

OK I was Hard Ass Admin (gone mutin')
I was more being funny cause i was threatening the 3 people that were being obnoxious over the mic with a mute... IE hard ass admin... get it?
I do not support the hard ass people in any way. They're childish pigs much like the other jackasses that find it necessary to to clan stack. Because you know.. On an all talk server... you gotta be on the same team to play with your friends...

But the only reason i topped the scoreboard... Heavy rocks on Turbine if you can spy check...

[tehs4ndman]

auto assign is enabled.. right? team balance? they are all there..

[Mike808]

OK I was Hard Ass Admin (gone mutin')
I was more being funny cause i was threatening the 3 people that were being obnoxious over the mic with a mute... IE hard ass admin... get it?
I do not support the hard ass people in any way. They're childish pigs much like the other jackasses that find it necessary to to clan stack. Because you know.. On an all talk server... you gotta be on the same team to play with your friends...

But the only reason i topped the scoreboard... Heavy rocks on Turbine if you can spy check...

that hurts me feelings
and dont forget pocket mike

[doppelganger]

To show that it's not just a "Hard Ass" thing...




and I don't know a better way to show that text, sorry.

[Mike808]

tuna is 12 so i wouldnt bring him into this

[Amplify]

console work fine too for text I think.

[doppelganger]

Rules are rules, regardless of age... you're never too young or old to learn to be a productive member of society... or at least happily coexist in a community. Besides, I'm not asking for anyone to be banned or anything, I'm simply making a point that things have been going on for far too long that have been overlooked and no one gives "evidence" so nothing is done. Everyone deserves a fair process, if it is brought to your attention that you are doing something that is against the rules (assuming you are too absent minded to read the rules on the front page) and you break them anyway, the process should begin with a warning, as is stated in the guidelines. The problem is that the admins either aren't on during the right times or are overlooking actions by individuals that is not beneficial to this community or any community for that matter. If you gave half a damn about this community you, and anyone else that regularly destroys the CSn integrity, would cease.

[Toaster]

OK I was Hard Ass Admin (gone mutin')
I was more being funny cause i was threatening the 3 people that were being obnoxious over the mic with a mute... IE hard ass admin... get it?
I do not support the hard ass people in any way. They're childish pigs much like the other jackasses that find it necessary to to clan stack. Because you know.. On an all talk server... you gotta be on the same team to play with your friends...

But the only reason i topped the scoreboard... Heavy rocks on Turbine if you can spy check...

I do not support the hard ass people in any way. They're childish pigs much like the other jackasses that find it necessary to to clan stack. Because you know.. On an all talk server... you gotta be on the same team to play with your friends...

But the only reason i topped the scoreboard... Heavy rocks on Turbine if you can spy check...

But the only reason i topped the scoreboard... Heavy rocks

Heavy

Also

Stop stacking failhorse, we know you love your little hard ass buddies.

[Mike808]

Rules are rules, regardless of age... you're never too young or old to learn to be a productive member of society... or at least happily coexist in a community. Besides, I'm not asking for anyone to be banned or anything, I'm simply making a point that things have been going on for far too long that have been overlooked and no one gives "evidence" so nothing is done. Everyone deserves a fair process, if it is brought to your attention that you are doing something that is against the rules (assuming you are too absent minded to read the rules on the front page) and you break them anyway, the process should begin with a warning, as is stated in the guidelines. The problem is that the admins either aren't on during the right times or are overlooking actions by individuals that is not beneficial to this community or any community for that matter. If you gave half a damn about this community you, and anyone else that regularly destroys the CSn integrity, would cease.

your doing a good job of bringing this topic up with out pointing any fingers (no sarcasm) so dont worry
honestly in the pubs lots of people complain about teams being stacked. but most of the time it is just one team having more competent medics who know how to not drop uber with a decent pocket. I do care for this community, i hate playing tf2 without one. I was so happy when benny invited me :3.

[doppelganger]

he did say that when we Hard Ass' play on Slay Box 2 we wont totally stack one team but slit between teams

viewtopic.php?f=34&t=1199

Insinuating that you normal team stack? Or that it's okay on Slaybox I? Oh but it was just a funny joke,hahahaha.

[Mike808]

he did say that when we Hard Ass' play on Slay Box 2 we wont totally stack one team but slit between teams

viewtopic.php?f=34&t=1199

Insinuating that you normal team stack? Or that it's okay on Slaybox I? Oh but it was just a funny joke,hahahaha.

umm slaybox one has auto assign so that "stack" was by random

[Maringue]

Dopple, I understand where you are coming from, but you need to mellow just a bit.
Here is a list of things we have in place to keep things even:
Auto-random join upon entering server
Vote-scramble
auto-scramble for under 2 min win
auto-scramble for 2 game win streak (not on tiered maps with 2-3 levels)
auto-scramble for kill ratio imbalance

Any more things like this and it will start to get draconian. Yes, there are people that avoid the auto-join when you get into the server. Rex and ^Xeno have been doing it a lot lately and I asked them to stop. I asked them to stop mainly because when they stack it can unbalance the game severely. Random teams will occasionally be stacked (by random probability) and sometimes it can't be fixed because the scramble locks if it got triggered the previous round. Having one map where the teams are uneven in skill is going to happen no matter how hard we try to avoid it. If it's just one map then there's nothing really being done wrong. I've been on teams that got their asses kicked because we were on offense and had 2 snipers, 2 spies and 2 engies all in the bottom half of the scoring. I have no problem telling people that their desire to play a support class poorly is why we are getting rolled as a team.

Basically I'm trying to say that teams getting randomly unbalanced for one map is not team stacking. Team stacking is repeatedly banding together with certain other players which unbalances the teams. In the case you cited with Tuna, I'm betting he was just trying to stat whore for the contest by going on defense, he is a little bit obsessed with getting items and is 12.

[doppelganger]

As far as the random team select at the beginning, all one has to do is wait for there to be more people on the one team than the other and then click to bypass it.

but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, maybe it was coincidence... this time.

[Mike808]

thats exactly what ive been trying to say
sorry im stupid

[Maringue]

As far as the random team select at the beginning, all one has to do is wait for there to be more people on the one team than the other and then click to bypass it.

but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, maybe it was coincidence... this time.

I'm not denying that some people do it, but they are in the definite minority. It's actually all in the chat logs, but that's a lot of shit to go through.

Also, remember that if there are 10 good people in the server and 10 not as good people in the server, I think (I stress think, I only use statistics when I have to) that slightly unbalanced teams will occur more frequently then exactly evenly skill balanced teams. Then you just need to get your teammates to play a class that will actually get something done.

[GoDM1N]

You, Surgeon and Jack Salad are all regulars. Still, does seem a little stacky. Then again, we have an autobalancer thing on Slaybox 1.

Auto Balance doesn't do shit. It only switches 2 or MAYBE 3 people, and assuming one of those people was a team stacker they can just switch back in two or three mins when someone leaves

Sorry I meant the autojoiner that chooses your team for you.

That also doesn't do shit. People just go spec and join whatever team they want while people are still joining

Basically I'm trying to say that teams getting randomly unbalanced for one map is not team stacking. Team stacking is repeatedly banding together with certain other players which unbalances the teams. In the case you cited with Tuna, I'm betting he was just trying to stat whore for the contest by going on defense, he is a little bit obsessed with getting items and is 12.

Yes but this isn't random and happens all the time.

[LegendarySurgeon]

The problem with team stacking is it's not something you can easily control without forcing people to follow the whims of a computer's algorithm. At best we can warn people not to team stack and even force scramble but this does more to antagonize people than encourage them to play. I'll admit that even I sometimes team stack with my brother (Bangoskank) who plays heavy and my girlfriend who plays soldier. This team stacking of course goes entirely unnoticed because the three of us are mediocre players who don't have game changing effects when stacked the way more skilled players like Sandman and I suppose by extension the rest of the Hard Asses do.

Team stacking is tricky because it can be fun to play with your real life friends, especially when you're learning to play. At the same time, high level players make team stacking intensely un-fun for everyone else.

One thing I will point out about this particular game you mention, Doppel, is that Red team was dicking around a lot. Jack Salad, Grounder, and I were all playing melee heavy at one point. For the most part I try to play relatively seriously in the slayboxes, especially slaybox 1, but after a while it's nice to just dick around for a bit and do something different.

[Take That!!]

Teams looked obviously stacked in the first post, Failhorse was there, and nothing was done about it, this is one of the points you used against Ackbar and got her admin removed, its funny how hypocritical everyone is in this community, it's all based on getting rid of people you don't like, and being very passive aggressive about it. I couldn't care less what Hard Ass is doing.

Double standards out the ass.

[Failhorse]

Heavy

Thanks for getting to the bottom of that Toaster.

FYI everyone auto-joined on Turbine. I was AFK after map change so not sure what happened badwater + after that.
On the previous map i did move Jack Salad, when he and his buddies were stacking. The difference was bypassing
the auto-join. There are no double standards. Except i can get away with wearing brown shoes and a black belt.

[rawkies]

Teams looked obviously stacked in the first post, Failhorse was there, and nothing was done about it, this is one of the points you used against Ackbar and got her admin removed, its funny how hypocritical everyone is in this community, it's all based on getting rid of people you don't like, and being very passive aggressive about it. I couldn't care less what Hard Ass is doing.

Double standards out the ass.

Sorry, this is a bit unclear to me. Are you saying people are being too lenient with stacking or too strict?

[Take That!!]

Teams looked obviously stacked in the first post, Failhorse was there, and nothing was done about it, this is one of the points you used against Ackbar and got her admin removed, its funny how hypocritical everyone is in this community, it's all based on getting rid of people you don't like, and being very passive aggressive about it. I couldn't care less what Hard Ass is doing.

Double standards out the ass.

Sorry, this is a bit unclear to me. Are you saying people are being too lenient with stacking or too strict?

I'm saying, when Failhorse does it, there is no penalty, when anyone else does it, it's the end of the world and something has to be done about it.

[Failhorse]

Huh? I was stacking cause i changed my name? That makes no sense.

[Patrid]

Didn't think this was still THAT much of an issue. Didn't get the memo.
I'm not so much concerned over occasional imbalances and team preferences, but I'm more a less upset at the fact that sometimes when people join certain teams to stat whore (or play/stat-whore with friends), it usually leaves the other team with 3+ (on a full server) incompetent dimwits.

I'm sorry, but if you don't know how to play spy/sniper/engie PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GAWD DONT TAKE UP THE ONLY SLOTS JUST BECAUSE YOU DONT WANT TO DIE.

tldr? In a nutshell, I'm rather fine with facing a team with 4 zclipses than being on a team with 4 useless spy/sniper/engies

[doppelganger]

The problem is not that I lose, as most of you that play with me know, I am rarely bottom of the server regardless of teams. However, this is for the people who can't hold their own. If I, as a better than average player (and far from comp), struggle against people who always team stack, pocket medic each other, and deathmatch/point-whore, how do you think someone feels who just joined for the first time? I don't QQ when Patrid switches to Pyro and flames my ass to the ground repeatedly (okay maybe I do a little). And a few of you that know me also know that I have rl friends that play here too, and I am usually against them more than on their team. I don't think I have ever seen Sandman join a match by himself, or play without at least one friend, and normally there are more. I've even been in a match when he's said "okay we're leaving now," and then he disconnected with 4 non-Hard Ass players. No I am not saying it is wrong to play with friends, so don't even try that one. I also don't notice eC team stacking.

Realistically, it's not even the team stacking that is the end of the world, it is everything that these team stackers do on top of it. You shouldn't need to put things in place to prevent team stacking, especially from regulars. They should want to benefit the community, not harm it. The larger problem at the moment appears to be all of you individuals who condone these actions. YOU promote this. Those that feel differently don't say anything, so all that you hear are the loud mouth ignorant people who stand up for one another and not the community.

We all also know that Sandman, and his clan, has been talked to several times for many different things, so why should anyone believe a word he says? And yet, as I have already stated, if this had been the only time (and far from the worst) I would not have even brought it up. This is simply the only time that I stopped being lazy like everyone else and took some screenshots. Also, as I have already pointed out, this is not a personal campaign against the Hard Ass association, but against all of the Try Hards on this non-competitive community. I make it very well known the people that I dislike and the reason why, and I was actually friends with Sandman when I first joined this community (despite him being "too cool" to remember me). I have also been told numerous times that there are some really cool people in the Hard Ass clan, and I have not had a problem with everyone myself. Unfortunately for them, the name has been tainted, and they allow themselves to be guilty by association by also condoning Sandman's actions. Everyone also seems to really enjoy Mike, I hear all the time how great of a guy he is... he must just really dislike me because I feel otherwise. But I don't have to get along with everyone.

This is not that big of a deal, I'm blowing it out of proportion... I simply brought up something that I personally felt was bad for the community and that I have heard numerous other people complain about. From there, you all made it a big deal. The community for the first time is trying to stand up for itself against the trolls that ruin the servers, communities, and games for their own personal fun. Stop being naive and/or stop condoning immaturity.

Why am I doing all of this? Because I chose to become a part of this community, I put on the tag, I donated to the cause, it is my responsibility to contribute to the success of it... and if the rest of you did the same this already good community could be great. You don't have to donate money to help the cause, those of you that donate time, insight, etc are just as beneficial (and thank you). Alright, I'm done for the moment =P

[TiakerAvelonna]

I had Oompa muted in about 15 minutes, and that was after asking him and Grounder twice, politely, to STFU with the mic spam. I like Sandman, and Twin and Mike are OK, but some of the other Hard Ass players really need to grow up (and I include Sandman in that).

As an admin on trial, I should have switched (or attempted to switch) on Turbine when BLU was winning too quickly. That's one of the things the admins are asked to do. I apologize; it's not something I usually do, unless I'm auto-moved for balance. Plus, if I'm not engi on Turbine, I tend to die a lot anyway. >_<

Also...in case anyone would question it, my fiance (Jin Li Gantz, who usually heavies or medics) and I do not, have not, and will never stack. We frequently ended up on opposite sides last night.

[Failhorse]

doppleganger I totally hear what you're saying. For clarification purposes. The previous 2 maps I did move people who were bypassing the auto-join feature. I did not see anyone do this on Turbine (message received perhaps.) So I didn't do anything. My name change to "hard ass" was meant as a joke, since that 1 dude was complaining cause I threatened to mute him + the other guy I did mute. I wouldn't put Mike at the center of this. If I was just plain old Failhorse, as heavy.. .on turbine. The same results would have happened. I camped the door allowing my team to control the mid area. Whoever controls mid controls the map. I was being healed, which almost never happens.

On the hard ass group in general. They're in the light right now. Mike is currently a trial admin, and sandman is currently under peer-review. I wasn't playing post Turbine, but realistically the map lasted less than 15 minutes, so I didn't look to much into any team imbalances. I know the previous 3 maps were kept balanced. I moved stackers and changed teams 3 times.

I don't know what else to tell you. I can't speak for server 2. But SB1 is a tight ship.

[LegendarySurgeon]

Realistically, it's not even the team stacking that is the end of the world, it is everything that these team stackers do on top of it. You shouldn't need to put things in place to prevent team stacking, especially from regulars. They should want to benefit the community, not harm it. The larger problem at the moment appears to be all of you individuals who condone these actions. YOU promote this. Those that feel differently don't say anything, so all that you hear are the loud mouth ignorant people who stand up for one another and not the community.

So, I guess the core here is: what to do about team stacking? Your suggestion seems to be: tell people not to do it. Yes?

[tehs4ndman]

whoa, lot of writing, first of all oompa isnt a hard ass, him in failhorse just put the tag on well, idk y but nothing i can really do about that, i am always the first one in and i always autojoin, i apologize for not switching but ppl were spamming and dicking around all game, i didnt realize it was such a serious match...and u guys lost cuz u couldnt stop mike and fail's pocket med, not cuz we were team stacking...i did apply for admin so i kno my responsibilities to switch teams wen needed, this didnt seem like one of those times... now tuna is 12 years old, he pockets me cuz he wanted competition points.. hmm wut else...im sorry i didnt remember u dopple, that doesnt mean im thick headed or too cool for u, its just u dont really talk on the mic unless ur talking serious bizniss, and i got u confused with another player...i am trying my best to behave, i kno i do have a history as a griefer to some ppl, i have stopped the hldj and ive been trying to keep teams even..i do really enjoy this community and the people who play in it... soo idk how else to respond to so many accusations..as for other complaints, ive been talked to long before this about them and have conformed to them...

[doppelganger]

First of all, I'm going to start by saying, I really do not have a problem with you Fail Horse. You have never angered me, trolled me, greifed me, or anything. With that said, everyone talks about you team stack all the time... so you're right, name is irrelevant. And as I said in the post right before you posted... supposedly replying to it, people need to stop standing up for each other and start standing up for the community. If everyone is supporting the community it will inevitably support one another in a beneficial way... so just like I told Mike that Tuna is no exception, I will tell you that Mike is none. I also find it very amusing how the people the most guilty are the ones who fight the hardest to appear not to be.

And to all of you others, you're so hellbent on this one match... what about all of the other matches that I did not post screenshots of? Yes I think that, as I have stated from the beginning, everyone needs to come to the realization that this is indeed going on, maybe a little AA "Hi my name is Joe and I am a team stacker" and move on. And with all that said, Sandman's response was perhaps the most mature of them all.

[Failhorse]

I'm important. Let's talk about me for a second.

With that said, everyone talks about you team stack all the time...

OK seriously Fools day is 4/1 not 3/1, you getting paid for this? Who exactly is everyone? err. Just name one person I suppose. Or show me 1 instance that I didn't auto-join.


As for the "other matches." I've addressed this twice now. the previous 3 maps i moved players who were trying to stack. I also changed team to accommodate the continuing imbalance. Though, they didn't have recognizable tags attached tho their names.

I really don't think you understand that I'm on your side in this matter. I've been the biggest proponent that "playing with your friends" is not a viable excuse to team stack on an all talk server. And 1/2 the time I spend being team balance bitch boy.

[TiakerAvelonna]

I think Turbine was the most blatant example of it last night, Dopple. The Freight maps were looking to be that way, but then the game auto-scrambled. I don't know about anything after the first couple of Freight maps; I'd been sitting my arse all day and was getting tired, so I left about 11:15 EST. Perhaps only those in the Hard Ass clan/guild/group should have that title on? It's not necessarily a good idea to use it as a joke title, especially given how some CSN'ers dislike some of the Hard Asses (myself included).

If I have to use the bathroom that badly, I'd just disconnect rather than AFK/Spectate. No reason to clog up the queue like that, especially at night when there's a line for the servers.

[Smeemo]

Looks like everyone has strong feelings about team stacking. Does the autojoin plugin not apply to non-admins? The whole point of the autojoining was so people had no control over what team they joined.

edit: I'm not what you'd call observant. Ignore this post.

[TiakerAvelonna]

There's a plugin? No wonder I never have a choice of teams when I connect...

[Fencerboy]

I just read the last couple of pages....is it just me or are we blowing this way out of proportion

[TiakerAvelonna]

Es posible. But there are some concerns that are coming to light, ne?

[Fencerboy]

I guess
But if u dopple thought the teams were unfair h should hav told failhorse privately or something
To tell u the truth this isn't really my place to say something

Also dopple if u used the new screenshoot thing on steam those came out pretty good XD

[GoDM1N]

i am always the first one in and i always autojoin,.

I lol'd at this











Anyway, pub stomping is something I have a huge problem with in all games and servers. This is coming from a Ex-Pro CSS LAN league player. I hate when scrubs join a pub server and act like their bad ass because they can team stack, play competitively, and top score boards. If you want to play competitively get some balls and join CEVO. Oh wait this is Hard ass we're talking about, I mean OLG or whatever that league is below TWL. Also Mike and Twin, don't take that the wrong way, just a stab at the little hard ass clique due to the way the other members act (mainly TNT and Sandman). This goes for everyone who team stacks on CSn, not just Hard Ass. Jack, Gounder, Joshie, Mangachu, ect. You're all cool dudes, but this shit needs to stop because its ruining the server for everyone else.

Looks like everyone has strong feelings about team stacking. Does the autojoin plugin not apply to non-admins? The whole point of the autojoining was so people had no control over what team they joined.

It can easily be bypassed (see pic one)

I got 2 ideas
1. remove the ability to join spectator, regardless if we are trying to populate the server at 8 am in the morning.
2. If admins see an afk player when they spawn. If you die again and spawn to see him/her there. Kick em.
It should not take around 5 mins to go to the washroom. Unless if something did not like you that you ate .-.

Agreed. Really all that needs to be done is forced random teams always and not allowing people to join other teams. I fail to see why this would be a problem. It stops ALL of the team stacking. As far as unbalanced teams theres nothing that can really be done about that unless people start using !votescramble. Teams will always be unbalanced at times but at least forcing random teams will stop teams being unbalanced on purpose, and will encourage people to use scramble more. That said it would also be nice if more than 3 people got scrambled at a time

[LegendarySurgeon]

Agreed. Really all that needs to be done is forced random teams always and not allowing people to join other teams. I fail to see why this would be a problem. It stops ALL of the team stacking. As far as unbalanced teams theres nothing that can really be done about that unless people start using !votescramble. Teams will always be unbalanced at times but at least forcing random teams will stop teams being unbalanced on purpose, and will encourage people to use scramble more. That said it would also be nice if more than 3 people got scrambled at a time

For my part I'd be interested in looking at and possibly rewriting the team scramble code being implemented on the server.

[duck]

i will now start stacking the trade server. the best traders (me, seven, domo) versus bad traders (all of the blue admins)

jk.

but still. lets just make teams fair. i love playing against my friends. i laugh at them when they die bye my dead hooker (my spy knife name)

[duck]

i dont care if your friends with a uhc admin. i am best trader evar :O mwuhahahahahaha. ask him if he has ever traded a backburner for an unusual (i got a coupe with flies for it, its still an unusual)

[rawkies]

whoa, lot of writing, first of all oompa isnt a hard ass, him in failhorse just put the tag on well, idk y but nothing i can really do about that, i am always the first one in and i always autojoin, i apologize for not switching but ppl were spamming and dicking around all game, i didnt realize it was such a serious match...and u guys lost cuz u couldnt stop mike and fail's pocket med, not cuz we were team stacking...i did apply for admin so i kno my responsibilities to switch teams wen needed, this didnt seem like one of those times... now tuna is 12 years old, he pockets me cuz he wanted competition points.. hmm wut else...im sorry i didnt remember u dopple, that doesnt mean im thick headed or too cool for u, its just u dont really talk on the mic unless ur talking serious bizniss, and i got u confused with another player...i am trying my best to behave, i kno i do have a history as a griefer to some ppl, i have stopped the hldj and ive been trying to keep teams even..i do really enjoy this community and the people who play in it... soo idk how else to respond to so many accusations..as for other complaints, ive been talked to long before this about them and have conformed to them...

I find it really hard to take you seriously when you type like a moron

[Ackybur]

This thread made me laugh. Oh the double standard how I love you

Hard Ass. Jack, Gounder, Joshie, Mangachu, ect. You're all cool dudes, but this shit needs to stop because its ruining the server for everyone else.

I don't see any special names in there...hmm


Anyways, admins shouldn't be allowed to pway wiff their fwiends :3

[Failhorse]

Ackbar I understand you want to find some way to make this about you.
But sadly it has nothing to do with "playing with friends."
Sorry.

[LegendarySurgeon]

I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE
HOHHOHOHOHOOH
HOOHO
HO
ho
bitch

Calm down, Mangachu, jeez

[GoDM1N]

Hard Ass. Jack, Gounder, Joshie, Mangachu, ect. You're all cool dudes, but this shit needs to stop because its ruining the server for everyone else.

I don't see any special names in there...hmm

I'd like to point out the names there, are people who have admitted to team stacking, in public, on the server. With the exception of Sandman, which I couldn't help but call out on his BS.


This is a PM I got from one of them


I did however black out the name on this PM, because it was just that, a private message. If the person who sent this wants to speak up and say they sent it, they can feel free, and I'll add the unedited pic to prove it was them after.

[GoDM1N]

This is a PM I got from one of them

That was me if your wondering who it was

I would also like to ask the Red Admins, no more contest on the public server unless you're awarding valued members of the community (Eg people like LegendarySurgeon, Patrid, Twin, Mike, ect) for simply being awesome people who we'd like to keep in the community. No more whos the best HLstat whore

[Fencerboy]

And so the story unfolds

[Toaster]

And so the story unfolds

I don't know why this post made me burst into laughter, it just did.

[LegendarySurgeon]

I would also like to ask the Red Admins, no more contest on the public server unless you're awarding valued members of the community for simply being awesome people who we'd like to keep in the community. No more whos the best HLstat whore

I second this: the attitude of players during the contest was drastically different than when enjoying the server for its non-competitive merits. If we had a separate contest server that would be a different story but I can only imagine that it would not work in a desirable way (I can just imagine the top 10 names being 50% hard ass and 50% some other clan that learned about the contest and decided to play on the CSn contest server). Most of the dedicated CSn community values fair, fun play and even people who have been somewhat villainized in this forum such as Fail Horse do generally try to keep teams fair and gameplay fun. With the introduction of the competition players' values were skewed towards Oh God, HATS and ways from Why yes, community, jolly good, pip pip.

[Ackybur]

So much anger in this thread! No anger on the kids table, all fun and games....OH! And coloring books provided by our local regular admin :3

[Toaster]

I personally really enjoyed the tournament, it brought a lot of traffic to the website and the servers which does a lot more than people think.

What I think is, we ban gloves of steel on our servers! those things are ridiculous and game changing...

[Fencerboy]

Nvm

[Ackybur]

I personally really enjoyed the tournament, it brought a lot of traffic to the website and the servers which does a lot more than people think.

What I think is, we ban gloves of steel on our servers! those things are ridiculous and game changing...

Nothing scarier then a heavy on fire running straight at you losing...no...health..

[doppelganger]

I think the tournament had it's positives and negatives. Godm1n and Surgeon are right, it brought in Try Hards and even turned regulars into them. However, Toaster is right and it did help populate the community... I guess the question is what kind of population do you want? What is your demography? Either don't have tournaments if you want a non-competitive community or... enforce the rules while having the contest to the best of your abilities. I disliked everything being about the contest, and I imagine each one after being less of an issue, but I think it was a great idea and Fingerman is the coolest guy ever for not only donating a majority of the hats but putting everything together. Another idea... Player of the Month. Base it on skill, personality, how active they are, etc... IDK, just my 2 cents in the jar I've already filled.

P.S. Ban Toaster's right hand.. he has to play 1 handed.

[Toaster]

I personally really enjoyed the tournament, it brought a lot of traffic to the website and the servers which does a lot more than people think.

What I think is, we ban gloves of steel on our servers! those things are ridiculous and game changing...

we should also ban the following
vita saw
kritz kreig
battlions backup
gru
piss gun
CAUSE THEY ARE SO OPPPPPPP
BANBANBAN

all those weapons have huge disadvantages so I would need to disagree

[LegendarySurgeon]

P.S. Ban Toaster's right hand.. he has to play 1 handed.

Sometimes I play medic one handed when I'm on the phone. I just hold down M1 to heal or switch to WASD to run away.

[Mike808]

the contest was good fun but it really did make everyone try super hard. today was probably the first time i went double negative cause i was back burning and didn't care. I <3 all of you so lets stop fighting and ill do my part in trying to stack less by switching teams or ill go demo knight or huntsmen sniper.
but i promise you guys will all see people try less, it was already obvious today when i was playing with the already known good players on the server were playing like they used to 2 months ago
zclipes was fooling around
bames jond wasnt dominating everyone as spy
sandman was w+m1 (sorta)
etc you guys get it

P.S. Ban Toaster's right hand.. he has to play 1 handed.

Sometimes I play medic one handed when I'm on the phone. I just hold down M1 to heal or switch to WASD to run away.

LOLOL i do that too but i just hold the phone with my shoulder and have super slow reactions

[GoDM1N]

So much anger in this thread! No anger on the kids table, all fun and games....OH! And coloring books provided by our local regular admin :3

Whos angry?

I personally really enjoyed the tournament, it brought a lot of traffic to the website and the servers which does a lot more than people think.

What I think is, we ban gloves of steel on our servers! those things are ridiculous and game changing...

I think the tournament had it's positives and negatives. Godm1n and Surgeon are right, it brought in Try Hards and even turned regulars into them. However, Toaster is right and it did help populate the community... I guess the question is what kind of population do you want? What is your demography? Either don't have tournaments if you want a non-competitive community or... enforce the rules while having the contest to the best of your abilities. I disliked everything being about the contest, and I imagine each one after being less of an issue, but I think it was a great idea and Fingerman is the coolest guy ever for not only donating a majority of the hats but putting everything together. Another idea... Player of the Month. Base it on skill, personality, how active they are, etc... IDK, just my 2 cents in the jar I've already filled.

P.S. Ban Toaster's right hand.. he has to play 1 handed.

Well heres the thing. The contest did bring traffic, but I'll say the same thing I said to Fingermen the other day. Do we want quantity over quality? Though I don't know whats going on in the 'back room' I thought the server was doing fine before the contest, we seemed to have a lot of new quality members showing up over the past few months, and when the contest started it seems the quality (of both the new and older members) went down yet the server had more people. Assuming it kept up at the rate it was going doesn't anyone else think sooner or later all CSn would be is another Lotus? I'd really hate to see CSn become that because thats the main reason I play HERE, or one of the other crappy communities with a bunch of dip shits. I would also like to know how many more donations you guys got? More, less or the same? Personally depending on what the next contest is will decide if I donate again or not, or even stay in the community. I don't want to support the Lotus slaybox1.

[Take That!!]

God bless us all, every one.

[doppelganger]

P.S. Ban Toaster's right hand.. he has to play 1 handed.

Sometimes I play medic one handed when I'm on the phone. I just hold down M1 to heal or switch to WASD to run away.

By "on the phone" you mean jacking it, I'm on to you.

[Fencerboy]

God bless us all, every one.

By "blessing us all" you mean damning us all to hell, I'm on to you.

[duck]

ok sorry

[GoDM1N]

since everyone is fighting i guess i will be our neutral person. i will just come to the server, use my epic spy and pyro skittles and kill you all with one shot of my fire axe, yes i can shoot with it, stop whining and play the game. the better compition you play against ex. mike, sandman, zclipse etc the better you get. used to suck, but with practice i sometimes lead the entire server as spy.

Gratz on failing to see the point of the thread

[Amplify]

since everyone is fighting i guess i will be our neutral person. i will just come to the server, use my epic spy and pyro skittles and kill you all with one shot of my fire axe, yes i can shoot with it, stop whining and play the game. the better compition you play against ex. mike, sandman, zclipse etc the better you get. used to suck, but with practice i sometimes lead the entire server as spy.

We're going to practice hard not able to get out of our spawn and not taking first point for hours!

[LegendarySurgeon]

since everyone is fighting i guess i will be our neutral person. i will just come to the server, use my epic spy and pyro skittles and kill you all with one shot of my fire axe, yes i can shoot with it, stop whining and play the game. the better compition you play against ex. mike, sandman, zclipse etc the better you get. used to suck, but with practice i sometimes lead the entire server as spy.

We're going to practice hard not able to get out of our spawn and not taking first point for hours!

I'm still not very good at walking out of spawn and dying, I need more practice. Usually the prospect scares me so much that I let other people do it while I switch to demo and fire pills over their shoulder.

[Twinweapons]

I do not support the hard ass people in any way. They're childish pigs much like the other jackasses that find it necessary to to clan stack. Because you know.. On an all talk server... you gotta be on the same team to play with your friends...

But the only reason i topped the scoreboard... Heavy rocks on Turbine if you can spy check...[/quote]

I would appreciate it if a admin would not use racial slurs and curses in a forum against other players and members of the community as it is inappropriate and immature to do so for us or anybody. Also I enjoy this server very much and it upsets me that other players have a buff with my friends and myself. Now you should know that Hard Ass is not a clan and we do not accept people, we are a community of players that are friends and have played together for quite a few years now. If you want to put hard ass and play with us all you need to do is ask, but if you put the tag on to mock us and speak in a negative fashion I advise you take it off as it does not represent our ideals. Also the all talk on a server makes no difference as we use vent/mumble/ team speak and the reason we play together is because we are friends and we want to play together. If you want to play as an individual go ahead, but I want to play with my friends on the same team. Thank You.

[Toaster]

There are no rules against playing with friends, just respect the team scrambles and take everything FH says with a grain of salt.

[Twinweapons]

Toaster do you play sc2? I just noticed that is idra in your photo.

[GoDM1N]

I would appreciate it if a admin would not use racial slurs and curses in a forum against other players and members of the community as it is inappropriate and immature to do so for us or anybody. Also I enjoy this server very much and it upsets me that other players have a buff with my friends and myself. Now you should know that Hard Ass is not a clan and we do not accept people, we are a community of players that are friends and have played together for quite a few years now. If you want to put hard ass and play with us all you need to do is ask, but if you put the tag on to mock us and speak in a negative fashion I advise you take it off as it does not represent our ideals. Also the all talk on a server makes no difference as we use vent/mumble/ team speak and the reason we play together is because we are friends and we want to play together. If you want to play as an individual go ahead, but I want to play with my friends on the same team. Thank You.

So you're not a clan, but you all always play on the same team and use vent to communicate with your other "friends" as you play on a all talk server? Call it what you want but at the end of the day its the same shit. If you guys want to play on the same team against other players join a lobby or a comp league.


As far as racial slurs I'd tread easy when accusing other people because you're clan host the member TNT.

[Fencerboy]

I would appreciate it if a admin would not use racial slurs and curses in a forum against other players and members of the community as it is inappropriate and immature to do so for us or anybody. Also I enjoy this server very much and it upsets me that other players have a buff with my friends and myself. Now you should know that Hard Ass is not a clan and we do not accept people, we are a community of players that are friends and have played together for quite a few years now. If you want to put hard ass and play with us all you need to do is ask, but if you put the tag on to mock us and speak in a negative fashion I advise you take it off as it does not represent our ideals. Also the all talk on a server makes no difference as we use vent/mumble/ team speak and the reason we play together is because we are friends and we want to play together. If you want to play as an individual go ahead, but I want to play with my friends on the same team. Thank You.

So you're not a clan, but you all always play on the same team and use vent to communicate with your other "friends" as you play on a all talk server? Call it what you want but at the end of the day its the same shit. If you guys want to play on the same team against other players join a lobby or a comp league.


As far as racial slurs I'd tread easy when accusing other people because you're clan host the member TNT.

I don't think they are trying to team stack (by what Twin is saying) its just that they are all friends and they want to play on the same team regardless of skill level or current status of the game they join. I think we can all say we have done it.

Also I think we are just targeting the Hard Asses. They aren't the only ones who do this, they just happen to be the clan that doppel got on camera XD.

Maybe I am just being nice but I think this is being looked at with to much detail

[GoDM1N]

I would appreciate it if a admin would not use racial slurs and curses in a forum against other players and members of the community as it is inappropriate and immature to do so for us or anybody. Also I enjoy this server very much and it upsets me that other players have a buff with my friends and myself. Now you should know that Hard Ass is not a clan and we do not accept people, we are a community of players that are friends and have played together for quite a few years now. If you want to put hard ass and play with us all you need to do is ask, but if you put the tag on to mock us and speak in a negative fashion I advise you take it off as it does not represent our ideals. Also the all talk on a server makes no difference as we use vent/mumble/ team speak and the reason we play together is because we are friends and we want to play together. If you want to play as an individual go ahead, but I want to play with my friends on the same team. Thank You.

So you're not a clan, but you all always play on the same team and use vent to communicate with your other "friends" as you play on a all talk server? Call it what you want but at the end of the day its the same shit. If you guys want to play on the same team against other players join a lobby or a comp league.


As far as racial slurs I'd tread easy when accusing other people because you're clan host the member TNT.

I don't think they are trying to team stack (by what Twin is saying) its just that they are all friends and they want to play on the same team regardless of skill level or current status of the game they join. I think we can all say we have done it.

Also I think we are just targeting the Hard Asses. They aren't the only ones who do this, they just happen to be the clan that doppel got on camera XD.

Maybe I am just being nice but I think this is being looked at with to much detail

Well if you take a look a the pics I posted it clearly shows them switching teams ect. This also isn't the 1st time people have had problems with HardAss doing just this. After talking to a few admins it seems they've gotten quite a few people complaining about them team stacking, and that was weeks before this thread was even made. Generally keep complaints like this in PMs with the admins to avoid drama, but the team stacking problem in general is something that needs to be brought to light and fixed, which is what this thread is about.

Before Hardass it was some other clan doing the same thing basically, and I'd rather see the problem fixed instead of banning or destroying parts of the community due to drama like last time. All that needs to be done is forced random teams and this whole problem will go away and all the drama it start as well.

[Mike808]

i do feel this contest was fun but whenever something is being given away and you need to accomplish something for it, it brings our a try hard attitude from everyone really striving for the prize. i will admit i did stack teams to pocket someone good to get points (but i do main medic anyways so its just id play medic even more) but now that the contest is over i dont need to try as hard. but for me trying hard and doing good at anything even video games is what makes it fun to me. anything i do i try my best because if your gonna do it, do it the best you can.
like i said before, ill do my best to be more friendly to the community when choosing teams because i do care what other people think.

[Failhorse]

Since when is jackass a racial slur?

[GoDM1N]

Since when is jackass a racial slur?

[Fencerboy]

Since when is jackass a racial slur?

[GoDM1N]

Since when is jackass a racial slur?

[youtube=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWokZ8c54zU[/youtube]


how come the video isnt coming up D:

you need to make it "youtube=nWokZ8c54zU]Jackass 3D Jet[/youtube]"

[Fencerboy]

Since when is jackass a racial slur?

[youtube=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWokZ8c54zU[/youtube]


how come the video isnt coming up D:

you need to make it "youtube=nWokZ8c54zU]Jackass 3D Jet[/youtube]"

thanks

[Twinweapons]

So you're not a clan, but you all always play on the same team and use vent to communicate with your other "friends" as you play on a all talk server? Call it what you want but at the end of the day its the same shit. If you guys want to play on the same team against other players join a lobby or a comp league.


As far as racial slurs I'd tread easy when accusing other people because you're clan host the member TNT.

TNT is not Hard Ass. Like I said people can put the tag on freely, but that doesn't mean they are affiliated with us. TNT lost that privilege a long time ago when he was curses on the server. If you haven't noticed he rarely plays now.

[Failhorse]

I'm still looking for an example of a racial slur. As for "curse" words. They are just words. Exemplifying or ridiculing some part of the anatomy usually. Considering "Frak" is now an expletive. I think we're grown up enough to know that words don't hurt people.

[Twinweapons]

Since when is jackass a racial slur?

Since the 1800's when southern's used the term for mentally challenged African Americans. Taking AP classes teaches individuals truth from the government paid history books that are purposely written by professors to give the reader a biased opinion and thus learning incorrect history. AP US, AP Euro, AP World, AP US Gov. Also I like to announce I am enrolling to Purdue as I got the letter today.

[Failhorse]

Just because slave owners used it to mock minorities, doesn't mean it was the only instance of someone foolish being called a jackass. I'm sure your socialist school books didn't give the actual date the word was coined to describe donkeys. If anything Eddie Murphy playing a donkey, in Shrek, did more harm to the black community anyway.

FYI the government doesn't set the standards that are in school books. This is done by the school boards. Generally favoring those in Texas, as they buy the most books. Overall the school boards have been stacked with right wing crazies for the last 30 years. All apart of the greater republican strategy to make you ignorant of the things around you. (not really THAT, but for the sake of arguement.) The less informed you are the better. IE Reagan removing Civics from the HS education. But before the Citizen United case, conservative groups had been making a push for years into local areas of authority. School boards especially so they don't have to teach you what sex is, that condoms don't go on bananas, or how anal sex is a good prophylactic.
(I'm butchering this whole nonsensical, but truthful, argument on purpose.)

[Twinweapons]

That post of the movie Jackass 3D was awesome. The jet part was so funny. Also, to further the notion on team stacking is that any one player with a medic will automatically make a team unbalanced esp. one of the many high profile players. So even one player joining in on what was previously a close game will make such a large impact that the teams will become imbalanced. If that one player joins either team it will make that team imbalanced so it doesn't matter. And everyone knows that once a high profile player gets on they will automatically be given a medic for the rest of the game.

[Fencerboy]

That post of the movie Jackass 3D was awesome.

Thanks it was an amazing movie I couldnt stop laughing

All apart of the greater republican strategy to make you ignorant

In other news Failhorse is a confirmed supporter of the Democratic party.

[Twinweapons]

Just because slave owners used it to mock minorities, doesn't mean it was the only instance of someone foolish being called a jackass. I'm sure your socialist school books didn't give the actual date the word was coined to describe donkeys. If anything Eddie Murphy playing a donkey, in Shrek, did more harm to the black community anyway.

FYI the government doesn't set the standards that are in school books. This is done by the school boards. Generally favoring those in Texas, as they buy the most books. Overall the school boards have been stacked with right wing crazies for the last 30 years. All apart of the greater republican strategy to make you ignorant of the things around you. (not really THAT, but for the sake of arguement.) The less informed you are the better. IE Reagan removing Civics from the HS education. But before the Citizen United case, conservative groups had been making a push for years into local areas of authority. School boards especially so they don't have to teach you what sex is, that condoms don't go on bananas, or how anal sex is a good prophylactic.
(I'm butchering this whole nonsensical, but truthful, argument on purpose.)

I agree with your assessment on the republican strategy for us to become less informed, but it is the government's money in public schools and the history books my school received for students that are less academically gifted as my teachers tell me that are so old and written by professors that are all from the USA, all biased, and as you said conservative( tho I would not go as extreme as socialist which is just throwing out words that the general public have a negative view and had nothing to do with the topic). All of these professors had previously been associated with the more conservative republican government, and if you look at their history attended parties with high standing political and economical peoples. Also the fact that all my teachers have told me the school board does decide what they do with the money including buying books, but the government has some extremely strong opinions on education that pretty much gives them control over certain voting ie History Books.

[Fencerboy]

Now, we have come full circle.

[GoDM1N]

All apart of the greater republican strategy to make you ignorant

In other news Failhorse is a confirmed supporter of the Democratic party.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism


Anyway I like how this has gone from "Yo team stacking sucks" to "Why does everyone hate hardass? " to "republicans suck!"

[Twinweapons]

Just because slave owners used it to mock minorities, doesn't mean it was the only instance of someone foolish being called a jackass. I'm sure your socialist school books didn't give the actual date the word was coined to describe donkeys. If anything Eddie Murphy playing a donkey, in Shrek, did more harm to the black community anyway.)

Now to the main point which is how you used the word and its other definition along with its original use for describing donkeys. The way you used "jackass" I'm pretty sure you did not mean donkey.

[Twinweapons]

We have come full circle =). Godmin thanks for the wiki post and the information it contains, but I never trust the site. I have seen it give false dates and toerh various forms of information that is incorrect.

[GoDM1N]

Just because slave owners used it to mock minorities, doesn't mean it was the only instance of someone foolish being called a jackass. I'm sure your socialist school books didn't give the actual date the word was coined to describe donkeys. If anything Eddie Murphy playing a donkey, in Shrek, did more harm to the black community anyway.)

Now to the main point which is how you used the word and its other definition along with its original use for describing donkeys. The way you used "jackass" I'm pretty sure you did not mean donkey.

This is a silly argument. Calling Failhorse racist because he said jackass is grasping at straws.

We have come full circle =). Godmin thanks for the wiki post and the information it contains, but I never trust the site. I have seen it give false dates and toerh various forms of information that is incorrect.

Meh tbh I didn't read past the top part. Was pointing out that (I assume anyway) Fail is a Libertarian.

[Failhorse]

I am not a democrat. I believe completely that both parties are bought and paid for. One is just worse than the other. But I do not believe in global capitalism, or whatever the hell you want to call it. There is no way to compete when someone makes 80 dollars a week in manufacturing. The idea of free trade does nothing for jobs. It only profits less than 1% of the American people. The same that keep their 800 billion in tax cuts. The same that board companies that pay no US taxes. And the same that are lobbying state governments to take away the rights of it's citizens. I should probably stop now.

@twin. The government can control a set of standards for school books. This really doesn't include the content which can be set by the school board. Ref: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/13/educa ... texas.html This sets the standards for 70-80% of all books in the US.

As for college. Just like my rant above. Take benny for instance. Going to school to be an engineer. Whatever he ends up doing. He'll be paying for decades on school loans. Meanwhile a graduate at the University of Mexico attended for free. Will work for 1/10th the pay. And the way the world is set up. Has a superior advantage in the global workplace. Other countries invest in these things called people. We give 30 billion to Exxon, allow colleges to rape their students, and ship their dream jobs to Mexico or India.

[Twinweapons]

Well if he had never said it in the first place to describe myself and my buddies it never would have been a problem. It was very inappropriate and I want him to apologize. For a admin on a forum that is not right as he should be against such nature and set himself to a higher standard on the forum, while on the server it is all fun and games and I can care less.

[Mangachu]

Ok i love how this is called team stacking
now its about goverment
what the fuck

[GoDM1N]

Ok i love how this is called team stacking
now its about goverment
what the fuck

Agreed

[Failhorse]

I am not a Libertarian. They are just republicans who want to smoke pot and get laid.
Yet still take away a woman's right to choose.

I will not apologize for calling anyone a jackass. sorry... I do hold myself to a higher standard. Therefor I cannot acknowledge any wrong doing.

[Konfy]

lets talk about my ban. ...jk :>

[Mangachu]

lets talk about my ban. ...jk :>

i thought you got unbanned
waht the brown

[Failhorse]

Trying to figure out where I could split off the thread into 2. but no good place.

[Fencerboy]

I think that this thread will keep going on pointlessly until it is locked down XD
Their are infinite topic that this can segway into

[Failhorse]

Fencer did you hear about the Segway executive that drove one off a cliff? A sense of irony has shown upon us.


Seriously though. it always does. Nothing really new to add.

[Twinweapons]

I can change topics rather fast =). I was kinda annoyed with the team balance topic as it can go either way and I say this gets shut down as there will one person's opinion after another and no solution will come at this moment. Is it a problem? not as much as you think as I have been in servers where it is a whole communities/clans on one team and everyone new on the other so this server is very good imo. All I can say is I rather enjoyed the article even tho I have read it before and once I find the article that disclaimed that I will send you a pm on it. If you can't tell I debate.

[Fencerboy]

Fencer did you hear about the Segway executive that drove one off a cliff? A sense of irony has shown upon us.

yes i did

[Toaster]

There are no rules against playing with friends, just respect the team scrambles and take everything FH says with a grain of salt.

Macro Terran, at your service.

[Twinweapons]

I am not a Libertarian. They are just republicans who want to smoke pot and get laid.
Yet still take away a woman's right to choose.

I will not apologize for calling anyone a jackass. sorry... I do hold myself to a higher standard. Therefor I cannot acknowledge any wrong doing.

Lol, well done. I will accept that as an apology. I will pm you the article once I find it on steam. I can actually have fun talking to you about political and other various annoying issues that dumb people and smart people do.

[Twinweapons]

There are no rules against playing with friends, just respect the team scrambles and take everything FH says with a grain of salt.

Macro Terran, at your service.

We should play sometime I play Terran as well on diamond.

[Toaster]

I believe I wrote somewhere a while ago that team stacking has more to do with composition than who's playing where. Unless those 2 people happen to be a medic and *soldier/demo/heavy*. Should "high profile" players on the same team and win a match it's "stacked", if that team loses, it goes unseen.

in other words

Less spy pyro sniper, more medic heavy soldier demo.
???
profit

[Toaster]

There are no rules against playing with friends, just respect the team scrambles and take everything FH says with a grain of salt.

Macro Terran, at your service.

We should play sometime I play Terran as well on diamond.

Eh, I would be master league if I found 1v1 ladder fun. Of course thats not saying much as it just requires a 1:1 score for like 1000 games...

[GoDM1N]

I can change topics rather fast =). I was kinda annoyed with the team balance topic as it can go either way and I say this gets shut down as there will one person's opinion after another and no solution will come at this moment. .

Idk, I think it was going quite well until you called fail a racist. LegendarySurgeon and I were coming (or at least trying to) up with ways to fix the problem.


Also just because its not as bad here as other servers doesn't mean its not a problem.

[LegendarySurgeon]

I can change topics rather fast =). I was kinda annoyed with the team balance topic as it can go either way and I say this gets shut down as there will one person's opinion after another and no solution will come at this moment. .

Idk, I think it was going quite well until you called fail a racist. LegendarySurgeon and I were coming (or at least trying to) up with ways to fix the problem.


Also just because its not as bad here as other servers doesn't mean its not a problem.

I checked this forum today, seeing it had updated, and had a vague hope that there would be, oh, I don't know, relevant discussion? My bad!

I did like the thing with the jet engine though, that was quality.

[Fencerboy]

from the people who brought u the jet engine seen...
yes this is a real bar this was not staged (except for the midgets)

I highly recommend this movie when it comes out on Dvd (on the 8th) or just get the first 2 now
http://www.jackassmovie.com/#/dvd

[Toaster]

from the people who brought u the jet engine seen...
yes this is a real bar this was not staged (except for the midgets)

I highly recommend this movie when it comes out on Dvd (on the 8th) or just get the first 2 now
http://www.jackassmovie.com/#/dvd

omfg i have to rent this right now

[Fencerboy]

omfg i have to rent this right now

I cant believe more people haven't seen it
1 is funny, 2 is funnier, 3 is hilarious and it was in 3D

(they also had a show on MTV)

[Hatred]

i agree.

i would like to see 1 of the servers boasted as a stack resistant server.

like the auto team always.
scramble after each full round (when blu becomes red)
and never being able to team switch unless moved by a admin (cause i dont mind being moved to help the underdog)

1 thing TF2 doesnt have is a stack resistant server ... anywere ... all the "top" servers are ... donate to stack servers .... but the no.1 complaint on all those servers is stacking ... there are many, many ppl who would donate just to have a spot on a server that does everything it can to prevent this... (auto-stacked lol)

i know it is impossible to completly prevent this but a server that is in every way trying to prevent this could be a big hit if this is attempted ...

just my 2 cents

[LegendarySurgeon]

It occurred to me (while I was grading homeworks) that there are actually two separate issues here: team stacking and team balance.

Hatred's 24/7 auto-scramble idea prevents team stacking, and that's great, but it will still cause problems with team balance. The ability for admins to move players slightly addresses team balance but leaves it in the hands of a few people who A) won't always be on and B) may not be able to effectively balance the teams even if they try. To this end we need to look at the scrambling algorithms and try to develop a new one that results in farer, more reliably balanced scrambles.

[Mike808]

unbalanced teams will always exist. some server wanderer thats extreamly good can join a team and totally throw off the teams and people will cry about being beat. THERE IS NO SOLUTION so id stop really talking about it
but team stacking can be fixed but not unbalanced teams

[LegendarySurgeon]

unbalanced teams will always exist. some server wanderer thats extreamly good can join a team and totally throw off the teams and people will cry about being beat. THERE IS NO SOLUTION so id stop really talking about it
but team stacking can be fixed but not unbalanced teams

Team balancing can be drastically improved, but not necessarily from a community standpoint, so I can see where you've gotten to collapsing into a pile of hopelessness. If possible, I guess, I'd like to look at the actual scrambling code because I wager it could use some improvement.

While yes, teams will never truly be balanced, our current scrambling is inadequately designed.

[GoDM1N]

unbalanced teams will always exist. some server wanderer thats extreamly good can join a team and totally throw off the teams and people will cry about being beat. THERE IS NO SOLUTION so id stop really talking about it
but team stacking can be fixed but not unbalanced teams

Well like LS said, the scrambling algorithms could use some work. They shouldn't just be based on points because I'd say 90% of the time the guy with the most points isn't why the other team is winning. What Toaster said is right about team composition. Maybe change it so it balances based on classes instead?

[GoDM1N]

unbalanced teams will always exist. some server wanderer thats extreamly good can join a team and totally throw off the teams and people will cry about being beat. THERE IS NO SOLUTION so id stop really talking about it
but team stacking can be fixed but not unbalanced teams

Team balancing can be drastically improved, but not necessarily from a community standpoint, so I can see where you've gotten to collapsing into a pile of hopelessness. If possible, I guess, I'd like to look at the actual scrambling code because I wager it could use some improvement.

While yes, teams will never truly be balanced, our current scrambling is inadequately designed.

Agreed. I'm sure everyone here has had scrambles that have made team balance worse.

[Mike808]

unbalanced teams will always exist. some server wanderer thats extreamly good can join a team and totally throw off the teams and people will cry about being beat. THERE IS NO SOLUTION so id stop really talking about it
but team stacking can be fixed but not unbalanced teams

Team balancing can be drastically improved, but not necessarily from a community standpoint, so I can see where you've gotten to collapsing into a pile of hopelessness. If possible, I guess, I'd like to look at the actual scrambling code because I wager it could use some improvement.

While yes, teams will never truly be balanced, our current scrambling is inadequately designed.

Agreed. I'm sure everyone here has had scrambles that have made team balance worse.

yep like when my friends are distributed evenly between teams and then after a scramble all my friends are on my team and its waaaay worse

unbalanced teams will always exist. some server wanderer thats extreamly good can join a team and totally throw off the teams and people will cry about being beat. THERE IS NO SOLUTION so id stop really talking about it
but team stacking can be fixed but not unbalanced teams

Well like LS said, the scrambling algorithms could use some work. They shouldn't just be based on points because I'd say 90% of the time the guy with the most points isn't why the other team is winning. What Toaster said is right about team composition. Maybe change it so it balances based on classes instead?

thats completely true and thats why there are class limits but we cant just forse people to play different classes to win

[LegendarySurgeon]

thats completely true and thats why there are class limits but we cant just forse people to play different classes to win

Yes, but when scrambling we can look at what class they are currently playing. If possible, it would be nice to look at the classes they played during the round. In this way we won't get scrambles where one team ends up with four medics and the other team ends up with none. (As much as I love how that opens up the four medic team to chain ubers...)

[Mike808]

fyi medics dont get scambled

[GoDM1N]

thats completely true and thats why there are class limits but we cant just forse people to play different classes to win

I'm talking about scrambling based on class, not forcing people to play different classes. Eg BLU team has 2 medics 2 heavys and 2 scoots, RED team has 2 spies, 2 snipers, and 2 Demos. The type of scramble that I'd like to see from this would be BLU team, 1 medic, 1 heavy, 1 scoot, 1 spy, 1 sniper, 1 demo and RED team 1 medic, 1 heavy, 1 scoot, 1 spy, 1 sniper, 1 demo. Instead of only moving 2 or 3 people with the most points to the other team.

[GoDM1N]

fyi medics dont get scambled

Donaters also don't get scrambled, and that should also be changed imho

[Failhorse]

donors get scrambled.

[GoDM1N]

donors get scrambled.

Ah wait thats right. They just don't get switched in the middle of a match right?

[LegendarySurgeon]

fyi medics dont get scambled

Donaters also don't get scrambled, and that should also be changed imho

I'm pretty certain you're both wrong: both medics and donators get scrambled. I say this from the point of view of a medic donator who gets scrambled.

[GoDM1N]

fyi medics dont get scambled

fyi medics dont get scambled

Donaters also don't get scrambled, and that should also be changed imho

I'm pretty certain you're both wrong: both medics and donators get scrambled. I say this from the point of view of a medic donator who gets scrambled.

Yea you are right. I remember reading something about donors not being switched, but I cant remember where I saw that. Maybe I'm thinking FUG, I play there sometimes when SB1 is dead

[Hatred]

It occurred to me (while I was grading homeworks) that there are actually two separate issues here: team stacking and team balance.

Hatred's 24/7 auto-scramble idea prevents team stacking, and that's great, but it will still cause problems with team balance. The ability for admins to move players slightly addresses team balance but leaves it in the hands of a few people who A) won't always be on and B) may not be able to effectively balance the teams even if they try. To this end we need to look at the scrambling algorithms and try to develop a new one that results in farer, more reliably balanced scrambles.

yes agreed hence the resistant and not proof comment lol as posted there isnt a way to stop this inbalance

but its not as bad to be dealt a shit hand instead of forced a shit hand lol

[Vivi Hill]

Donors don't get autobalanced, but anyone can get scrambled. This is because we don't want people donating so they can team stack.

[Hatred]

i left lotus cause of it ill leave here cause of it .... fucking stacking .....

how much it cost to add a server rule of stackers get banned ?

i just kidding and the how much it cost part ....

but wtf i thought i was free from stacking here .... i have rarly seen it a problem here until these last 2 weeks .... i hate it

PS. ill donate whatever it takes to enforce that ...

[Echoplex]

The contest ends in two days, too~

[Failhorse]

who's stacking now?

[Trauma Advocate]

I haven't seen it in a while, and it's the sort of thing that I really ***** about when it happens, so no complaints here... but I'll get loud when it does.

[Maringue]

If you see someone doing this (team stacking), let an admin know in private chat about who was involved. Then they can investigate the issue properly. No one wants team stacking.

[Trauma Advocate]

Er, as long as we're on that issue, could someone quick give me the rundown on what all the different admin groups are for?

[Mike808]

Er, as long as we're on that issue, could someone quick give me the rundown on what all the different admin groups are for?

red are the leaders, blue are admins only on slayboxes, gold are trade experts and only admin trade server, and pink are the jolly old bunch that knows when "fun" goes too far and controles it in the fun server.