So there's this guy saying things about Heavies...

[Techercizer]

You should go rage at him/support his cause to your dying breath

[SovietPanda]

lol heavies

[duck]

heavies, in my opinion are the easiest class to kill, the can't move very fast while shooting, as a soldier its a three shot kill, they are an easy target for spys and snipers and pyros and axtinguish them with ease

[Guy]

Nerf Heavy? You must be bad.

Next thing you will be saying Soldiers are UP and needs to be buffed, and Medics should be removed from the game because they are 'disgustingly' overpowered with ubercharges and healing in a FPS.

Booohooo.

[Mangachu]

Nerf Heavy? You must be bad.

Next thing you will be saying Soldiers are UP and needs to be buffed, and Medics should be removed from the game because they are 'disgustingly' overpowered with ubercharges and healing in a FPS.

Booohooo.

i lol'd
not with, at, heavy needs a nerf desperately. With how much dps it can do(LOL MMO) it can pretty much kill anything with ease, there is even a certain spot that a heavy with no buff can kill one with a medic healing him which is fucking retarded and pretty much every wep if op as fuck but the two he said need a buff, and the brass beast cause well its retarded
nerfkthx

[Guy]

Lots of heavies?

Roll sniper or spy? D:

They have medic's healing them?! FOR HEAVEN SAKES!

Kill medic's 1st? :O

You think heavies are OP? Sollies are the ones people really need to look at. What about that instant death, crit-o-matic, scoot speed pickaxe?

Laugh at me all you want, but heavies are fine. Any class played well is 'OP'.

[duck]

im with you here guy, as i said heavies are very easy to kill if you know you to play this game with a very small amount of competence

[Mangachu]

Lots of heavies?

Roll sniper or spy? D:

They have medic's healing them?! FOR HEAVEN SAKES!

Kill medic's 1st? :O

You think heavies are OP? Sollies are the ones people really need to look at. What about that instant death, crit-o-matic, scoot speed pickaxe?

Laugh at me all you want, but heavies are fine. Any class played well is 'OP'.

play on no crit server, 2/3rds of those GONE
don't bitch about something that can be fixed by just playing on another sever

[Guy]

Lol, well you can still pretty much 1 shot any of the lightly wounded light classes with it and top it off not even a Medic can get away from you with it. Crits are no crits.

http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Equalizer

And also I am not bitching here, just pointing out that no one says anything about sollies being 'op'.
So kindly keep you vain in your head, sir.

[Jake]

Mike says "Heavies are the most over powered shit in the world. Several valve employees I've spoken too have said its a broken class, but nothing can be done with out a huge bitch fest."

[BabyJesusIsALover]

Baby Jesus eats heavies for breakfast.

[Guy]

I only play medic and engie.

I am not all talk. Any decent play can kill me no matter how good I am, and I know this.

SO it isn't about my e-peen.

I never had problems with heavies, you just stay out of range of em. I see people kill them with ease, and if I get a chain of crit needles I can usually drop the overhealed heavy myself. Just like a sentry, you just say away from em. *shurg*

Edit: The post I posted this for seems to have been deleted. ...

[Mangachu]

I only play medic and engie.

I am not all talk. Any decent play can kill me no matter how good I am, and I know this.

SO it isn't about my e-peen.

I never had problems with heavies, you just stay out of range of em. I see people kill them with ease, and if I get a chain of crit needles I can usually drop the overhealed heavy myself. Just like a sentry, you just say away from em. *shurg*

Edit: The post I posted this for seems to have been deleted. ...

yeah I posted it by accident, was too lazy to finish it :L

[Rologton]

With hopes of avoiding a war here, I have to respectfully disagree with you guys. Heavy is OP. Not the class himself, his unlocks.

What are his weaknesses? Slow move speed, making him take a long time to get to the action, and slow spin-up speed, making him weak to ambushes. He now has the GRU, meaning that the class with the highest DPS and health in the game can get anywhere on the map quickly, with the only downside being completely negated by a healthpack, Medic, or Sandvich. He also now has the Tomislav, making him all but immune to ambushes and yet taking nothing away from his capabilities in sustained combat. Add on top of that a self heal. At any time he can throw his Sandvich and get half his health back, without a Medic, effectively giving him 450 HP at any time.

You say go Spy and Sniper. Anybody with half a brain knows not to stand out in the open in a Sniper lane, and a Spy is completely defenseless against an aware Heavy who turns around. To get a backstab, the Spy needs to be in point-blank range, where the Minigun kills every class in less then a second.

Nobody saying he's impossible to kill, the issue is that his unlocks take away all expoitable weaknesses. Scout has low health and needs to get into point-blank range. Demoman is increadibly weak at close range. Soldiers have long reload times and can potentially hurt themselves. These are all weaknesses that other classes can exploit. With his unlocks, all that's left is hoping that he's a complete idiot or ganging up on him. A lot of people say "use teamwork on him", but I find that a little rediculous that you're expected to focus more then one person on one class. The only thing in the game that needs team work are a Medic with a patient and a Sentry nest, and even those are still fairly likely to be taken out with one person.

Anyway, just my 2 cents...

Should I activate flame shields?

[mrpikmin2]

A lot of people say "use teamwork on him", but I find that a little rediculous that you're expected to focus more then one person on one class. The only thing in the game that needs team work are a Medic with a patient and a Sentry nest, and even those are still fairly likely to be taken out with one person.

[Rologton]

A lot of people say "use teamwork on him", but I find that a little rediculous that you're expected to focus more then one person on one class. The only thing in the game that needs team work are a Medic with a patient and a Sentry nest, and even those are still fairly likely to be taken out with one person.

Am I wrong? Should one player need 2 to take out? With one loadout, Heavy goes from being the worst 1v1 class to the best, having both the highest DPS and HP pool in the game, with no spin-up time, almost Medic speed and a self heal. Even with all this, he still fully retains his role in sustained combat, being less powerful solely against Level 3 Sentries.

[Guy]

I kill heavies with a Syringe Gun.

I don't know what the big deal is.

[Techercizer]

I kill heavies with a Syringe Gun.

I don't know what the big deal is.

I kill everything with a Syringe Gun, so that doesn't really mean much.

[Guy]

Trying to point out, it isn't hard to kill heavies.
Hell, I bonesaw heavies to death if I get close enough and use my move speed to stay out of thier LOS. Such a big ass target.
If the heavy gets the drop on you, he deserves the kill. *shurg*

If you can't kill a heavy as a Solly... you suck worse than I do as Solly... and thats very bad.

[Techercizer]

Trying to point out, it isn't hard to kill heavies.
Hell, I bonesaw heavies to death if I get close enough and use my move speed to stay out of thier LOS. Such a big ass target.

Well I amputate Scouts, Soldiers, Pyros, Demomen, Engineers, Sentries, Medics, Snipers, and Spies to death as well, so again, I don't really see how that means much.

[Guy]

Trying to point out, it isn't hard to kill heavies.
Hell, I bonesaw heavies to death if I get close enough and use my move speed to stay out of thier LOS. Such a big ass target.

Well I amputate Scouts, Soldiers, Pyros, Demomen, Engineers, Sentries, Medics, Snipers, and Spies to death as well, so again, I don't really see how that means much.

Nothing means much when talking to you, so why should I bother.

[Techercizer]

Trying to point out, it isn't hard to kill heavies.
Hell, I bonesaw heavies to death if I get close enough and use my move speed to stay out of thier LOS. Such a big ass target.

Well I amputate Scouts, Soldiers, Pyros, Demomen, Engineers, Sentries, Medics, Snipers, and Spies to death as well, so again, I don't really see how that means much.

Nothing means much when talking to you, so why should I bother.

*shrugs*

You tell me.

[Rologton]

I'm not saying you can't kill them, I'm saying that the now most common load out takes away all of their exploitable flaws, with a self heal, and with no real downside. I've been able to Ubersaw Heavies that weren't paying attention too. And Scattergun. And Sticky Bomb.

The issue with Heavy is that he now has no real weakness, and he's super easy to be effective with yet takes very little skill. What's harder? Fighting a team with three Soldiers or a team with three Heavies?

[Amplify]

I'm not saying you can't kill them, I'm saying that the now most common load out takes away all of their exploitable flaws, with a self heal, and with no real downside. I've been able to Ubersaw Heavies that weren't paying attention too. And Scattergun. And Sticky Bomb.

The issue with Heavy is that he now has no real weakness, and he's super easy to be effective with yet takes very little skill. What's harder? Fighting a team with three Soldiers or a team with three Heavies?

Three heavies. Snipe, Snipe, Snipe.

3 Soldiers jump around and splash damage.

[Rologton]

I'm not saying you can't kill them, I'm saying that the now most common load out takes away all of their exploitable flaws, with a self heal, and with no real downside. I've been able to Ubersaw Heavies that weren't paying attention too. And Scattergun. And Sticky Bomb.

The issue with Heavy is that he now has no real weakness, and he's super easy to be effective with yet takes very little skill. What's harder? Fighting a team with three Soldiers or a team with three Heavies?

Three heavies. Snipe, Snipe, Snipe.

3 Soldiers jump around and splash damage.

3 Heavies that aren't brain dead and don't stand around in the open in Sniper lanes, and check there back for Spies.

Now what's your plan?

[WHAMbulance]

Since I've come to critsandvich (and started playing with relatively competent players) I've noticed heavy doesn't mean shit.

Any well coordinated team can take down a heavy/medic combo with little difficulty.

However getting bum rushed by 4 heavies and a couple medics is downright annoying, not due to each individual heavy being OP just due to the fact there's a wall of overhealed meat walking towards you spraying little lead kisses.

Solution to problem? Limit the amount of heavies per map. Done.

[jawsh]

heavy_limit 0

imo

[Amplify]

3 Heavies that aren't brain dead and don't stand around in the open in Sniper lanes, and check there back for Spies.

Now what's your plan?

Has a sniper you're supposed to be behind your team, so fully charged headshot > Heavies. Also it doesn't mather it's not in the open, anything is do-able when you're a good sniper even in 5 cp map..

[Mangachu]

3 Heavies that aren't brain dead and don't stand around in the open in Sniper lanes, and check there back for Spies.

Now what's your plan?

Has a sniper you're supposed to be behind your team, so fully charged headshot > Heavies. Also it doesn't mather it's not in the open, anything is do-able when you're a good sniper even in 5 cp map..

for someone who came up with the whole 6v6 tourney thing you sure are stupid to think heavy is less OP than soly
heavies fucking rape in 6v6 and require like 3 seconds to kill which is 3/8 seconds for uber so yeah got 5 seconds to kill something

[Techercizer]

All right guys, let's try to keep it in our pants here. No matter what you believe about this issue, insults and rage aren't going to help you; they weaken your argument by undermining your credibility, and more importantly, they're a disservice to your fellow community members, none of whom deserve to be treated carelessly.

[Amplify]

3 Heavies that aren't brain dead and don't stand around in the open in Sniper lanes, and check there back for Spies.

Now what's your plan?

Has a sniper you're supposed to be behind your team, so fully charged headshot > Heavies. Also it doesn't mather it's not in the open, anything is do-able when you're a good sniper even in 5 cp map..

for someone who came up with the whole 6v6 tourney thing you sure are stupid to think heavy is less OP than soly
heavies fucking rape in 6v6 and require like 3 seconds to kill which is 3/8 seconds for uber so yeah got 5 seconds to kill something

Not my problem if I have harder time with soly then heavy and I've seen a couple of team going 2heavies 1demo 2scout 1medic, which is totally gay in 6v6.

Also we're talking about pubbing right? Pretty sure competitive has rules against that kind of shit and rendering the heavy balanced in tournament.

[jawsh]

Not my problem if I have harder time with soly then heavy and I've seen a couple of team going 2heavies 1demo 2scout 1medic, which is totally gay in 6v6.

Also we're talking about pubbing right? Pretty sure competitive has rules against that kind of shit and rendering the heavy balanced in tournament.

ESEA rules: 1 heavy allowed at any time, no sandviches or melee weapons other than fists or KGB.

A lot of teams run heavy defending last, and some pushing last due to the cleanup potential of heavy after an uber goes out.

[Amplify]

Not my problem if I have harder time with soly then heavy and I've seen a couple of team going 2heavies 1demo 2scout 1medic, which is totally gay in 6v6.

Also we're talking about pubbing right? Pretty sure competitive has rules against that kind of shit and rendering the heavy balanced in tournament.

ESEA rules: 1 heavy allowed at any time, no sandviches or melee weapons other than fists or KGB.

A lot of teams run heavy defending last, and some pushing last due to the cleanup potential of heavy after an uber goes out.

My point! The 2 heavies team was before that rule. ;p

Where's the problem now Mangachu?

[Mangachu]

Not my problem if I have harder time with soly then heavy and I've seen a couple of team going 2heavies 1demo 2scout 1medic, which is totally gay in 6v6.

Also we're talking about pubbing right? Pretty sure competitive has rules against that kind of shit and rendering the heavy balanced in tournament.

ESEA rules: 1 heavy allowed at any time, no sandviches or melee weapons other than fists or KGB.

A lot of teams run heavy defending last, and some pushing last due to the cleanup potential of heavy after an uber goes out.

My point! The 2 heavies team was before that rule. ;p

Where's the problem now Mangachu?

apparently you didn't read anything else like when it comes to ubers and stuff :L
me and chsr played on slaybox 1 on upward. i went kgb heavy and i went 36:1 in 1 round
nope
not op

[Amplify]

apparently you didn't read anything else like when it comes to ubers and stuff :L
me and chsr played on slaybox 1 on upward. i went kgb heavy and i went 36:1 in 1 round
nope
not op

Slaybox 1 has random crits and filled with casual players.
Someone who gets killed by kgb is retarded, who would stand there when there is a heavy rushing at you with melee?

While we're there kritz stickies are op in pub, 353 damage by stickies is enough to kill a whole team in a push. There's always a way to counter something, don't blame a class when the other team is filled with f2p or casual player who don't care about their K:D.

[mrpikmin2]

me and chsr played on slaybox 1 on upward. i went kgb heavy and i went 36:1 in 1 round
nope
not op

cool story bro.

Anyway, back to the issue, people keep bringing up how they can kill heavies as medic/soldier/asdfgh. If the heavy is of the same skill level as you, it is typically easier for him to win in most cases. Assuming you both have a medic, this is even easier to see.

Also, to add to mangachu's point, a heavy can draw in fire for 3 seconds of an uber and then get flashed on to give him another 2 seconds worth of time. This means a heavy gets 5 seconds of time needed to kill for 1 flash of an uber.

[Mike808]

me and chsr played on slaybox 1 on upward. i went kgb heavy and i went 36:1 in 1 round
nope
not op

cool story bro.

http://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/ma ... un_for_me/

[mrpikmin2]

me and chsr played on slaybox 1 on upward. i went kgb heavy and i went 36:1 in 1 round
nope
not op

cool story bro.

http://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/ma ... un_for_me/

Plr isn't a balanced mode to begin with.