Good opportunities for practicing?

[John Magnum]

Hey guys,

I consistently have fun on the CSn slayboxes, and hopefully I'm fun to play with for the other people. I'm self-conscious about my basic competency, so I'm wondering if anyone can suggest good ways to practice unfamiliar classes or strategies. I mostly play a Medic, Heavy if there's already a Medic or two, and I think I usually do fairly well. But how would I go about getting better at Pyro or Soldier or Demoman? I'm kind of reluctant to just play one on the server and die a bunch until I learn the map from a new perspective, although I guess that's always an option (an option that could be sped up by looking at the wiki for map-specific and class-specific tips).

Maybe some specific things, even: Spy-checking and sniper-avoiding. I guess it's really just "always be moving" and "always be looking in every direction".

Blah whatever I'm making a topic.

[rawkies]

Hey guys,

I consistently have fun on the CSn slayboxes, and hopefully I'm fun to play with for the other people. I'm self-conscious about my basic competency, so I'm wondering if anyone can suggest good ways to practice unfamiliar classes or strategies. I mostly play a Medic, Heavy if there's already a Medic or two, and I think I usually do fairly well. But how would I go about getting better at Pyro or Soldier or Demoman? I'm kind of reluctant to just play one on the server and die a bunch until I learn the map from a new perspective, although I guess that's always an option (an option that could be sped up by looking at the wiki for map-specific and class-specific tips).

Maybe some specific things, even: Spy-checking and sniper-avoiding. I guess it's really just "always be moving" and "always be looking in every direction".

Blah whatever I'm making a topic.

Pug Pug Pug. If you're looking to play non-competitive classes, there's always the Highlander option.

[Smeemo]

Pyro: The Backburner does the most fire damage, but the Flamethrower and Degreaser allow for compression blasting, which can deflect projectiles like rockets, grenades, sticky bombs, and even arrows once you get the hang of it. What I'm saying is LEARN HOW TO USE THE AIRBLAST. This is the easiest class to spycheck with; just run around flaming everyone, and always take advantage of friendly dispensers for infinite ammo (woot woot). Anyone who catches on fire must die! Pyros are very effective protecting Medic combos (like a medic/heavy) and engineers and their gear.

Soldier and Demoman are both projectile explosive classes. The Soldier is more of a front-line fighter, since he can sacrifice some health to escape from combat by rocket-jumping, and he has the shotgun for close-range combat. Every team needs Soldiers at the front lines shooting rockets constantly. The Demoman is more of a mid-to-long range class. He has no real short-range weapon, and instead relies on his teammates to hold the front line while he lobs explosives over their heads.

Basically just play and be creative with how you can use your weapons, max health, and speed to complement that of your teammates around you. Have fun.

[Patrid]

This is the easiest class to spycheck with; just run around flaming everyone, and always take advantage of friendly dispensers for infinite ammo (woot woot). Anyone who catches on fire must die! Pyros are very effective protecting Medic combos (like a medic/heavy) and engineers and their gear.

More specifically, when dealing with d/r spies- flame them until they activate cloak, then flame them again. When they try to run away- compression blast them constantly (juggling) into a corner or wall, then burn them when they are forced to decloak.
Always a good idea to randomly check building/map corners and ontop of rocks/engie buildings for c/d spies.

Aside from spy-checking, pyros are also very important team players. If you pass a huntsman sniper~ they really appreciate it when a pyro lights their arrow. MORE IMPORTANTLY, I can't stress enough how many times friendly non-bb pyros pass me when i'm on fire and shouting at them to put me out. COMPRESSION BLAST on teammates that are on fire = happy teammate.

[Zclipse]

Play the class enough to learn it inside out, Most of it comes from experience, But there are a few tricks to getting better at projectile classes like Soldier/Demo such as adjusting your interp, sensitivity, config.

If any1 wants to explain what cl_interp is feel free, if not just ask someone about it next time you're in the server (Smeemo, Me, Tktht,Toaster or some1 else that plays Solly/Demo well.) We'd be glad to help.

[Golden]

Or you could just stick to medic

People love good medics.

[Ackybur]

I love my medics. But I used to only play medic before too, and I can see how it gets boring. Honestly I got better at certain classes by just playing them and advice from tkt and z. A lot of it just takes time, and watching. As for where to get better, play on csn! Who cares if you bottom frag, how else are you to get better? If people give you shit about your class choice tell them you're just learning, and having fun. No one can complain with that, and if they can then they're assholes.

[Maringue]

There are some good youtube videos on the fundamentals of aiming with the solider/demo. I'm betting some people here have some links for those.

The biggest key to aiming as a soldier is being able to anticipate where an enemy wants to go next. Just hit a scout with a rocket? Aim your next rocket between him and the nearest healthpack, it will get him every time. Another good tip is to fall back or get behind something to reload. Shooting one rocket at a time while reloading is a really fast way to get killed. Practice your rocket jumps. Soldiers work best when they have the high ground, so rocket jumping can give you a big time advantage. Plus, you can get into places the other team doesn't expect and to lots of damage.

I'm still terrible at directly aiming with the demo, but I'm pretty decent at indirect fire. If you get good at lobbing pipes and stickies over stuff, you will become the bane of enemy engies. There are very few maps that have places where you need and uber to kill a gun, most can be taken care of easily with a demo who knows how to get the right angle.

And don't worry about sucking at a class. You haven't suggested trying to play a spy or a sniper which are the only classes that have limits. I'll play scout just to improve how badly I suck at that class all the time.

Lastly, don't be afraid to spec a good player once in a while. Snow is a great soldier, Zclipse is a great scout, Fail is an excellent demo. Just watch some of the things they do. You can get ideas on improving that have nothing to do with how good your aim it.

[Ackybur]

Wellllllll snow is great but z and tkt play more like they did in comp. The techniques they use are a little different. Z- watch any class he is really playing. tkt- really great at soldier. Toaster (or tclipse)- sniper and scout it's actually fun to spectate him.
And snowsickle.

[Fiend]

Checking the Wiki for basic and semi-advanced tips is pretty essential I'd say. Watching Youtube videos doesn't hurt either. It's sometimes tough to determine •how• people are doing what they're doing on video or even in spectator. That being said, get a basic grasp of the class you want to learn by doing a little homework, then find someone good at the class who isn't a jerk and ask questions.

I've been keeping the TF2Wiki updated on Heavy info for some time as that's the class I enjoy playing most. Others would have a lot more to offer about explosive classes. Looking to see if these forums have threads dedicated to education and tips… seems like a pretty solid topic.

[John Magnum]

Thanks for the advice, everyone. I think I'm gonna give Soldier a shot for a while, probably first default RL and then DH for a bit.
I think I have both banners and the Equalizer, so I could give those a shot. The banners are kind of like diffused versions of the Medic's ubers. They're weaker (mini-crits instead of crits, damage reduction instead of invulnerability) but they're AoE instead of single-target. Probably worth messing about with.

[Echoplex]

Pway a Weal Cwass I

Pway a Weal Cwass II

Those are both really good starting points that will also get you practicing the more advanced stuff right from the start. The information in he first video is a lot better, but the music in the second video (Ronald Jenkees) is awesome while it's mostly him showing off footage and saying obvious and outdated stuff about the DH/Buff banner.


Remember to always aim at the feet, even if it fucks up your accuracy a little bit. You're also going to be bouncing other people around, and eventually, bouncing and airshotting them. Prediction at long range is something that you'll learn over time, just try to pay attention to how much you're missing by and to which direction and adjust in the future. In my experience, a lot of getting good at projectile classes is experimentation and muscle memory

Once you get a good grip on the class, one thing that I would recommend is to always take a shot at the hard stuff in casual situations. Go for airshots against people you juggle or soldiers that try to jump around you. It's worst losing a rocket for the practice, cause practice makes perfect ;D

Also, download TR_walkway. It is awesome

[Toaster]

You're that medic that actually heals scouts! I love you man and it's always a pleasure meatshoting the other scouts trying to kill you! ^^ If you want my opinion on how to be a better player at this game then it's the following: You need to get to know EVERY class; that way you can take advantage of each classes weakness by knowing them your self. Once you've done that just better your core fps skills like: aim, movement(stay unpredictable, don't stop moving, don't run in a straight line), know your surroundings is a big one. Also, always call out spies, only thing worse than dying to a random crit would be getting killed by a spy!
Hope to see you on the server again soon btw ty z/acky you guys are too kind =p

[Ackybur]

TOASTER I LOVE YOU (nice snail btw)



Also, dude don't get rid of the shotgun for a banner. It's soooooo handy, sometimes 4 isnt enough

[John Magnum]

The way I figure, it's easy to heal Scouts. It takes barely any time to get them from blinking red to full overheal :D
Hard to pocket, though, but still.
Thanks for still more advice. I tried Demoman and Soldier today. Demoman seems pretty cool, I enjoy being able to do indirect fire and area denial. Reloading is obviously an issue; I probably need to get better at sticking with the team so I can duck out and someone else can keep up the rate of fire.

[Snowsickle]

I'm kind of reluctant to just play one on the server and die a bunch until I learn the map from a new perspective...

Little late for this, but I firmly believe this is the only thing keeping anyone from being good at the classes they like. Just get in there and die a lot. If people complain about your competency, fuck them. Everyone starts somewhere.

Second rule, never make excuses. You aren't going to get better if you think "oh well that guy was playing natascha, nothing I could have done there." Nobody plays perfectly and there's almost always something you could have done differently to win a fight. Lots of people like to complain about mechanics while doing the same stuff over and over instead of thinking about new ways to beat someone. Especially in pub games, there's always something you can exploit to tip the scales in your favor. Often time it's just moving intelligently. I don't get kills because I'm good at front line combat, I get kills because I flank and jump on people constantly when the map allows me to. That said, if your goal is competitive play, your mileage may vary with that strategy, since as a pocket soldier you'll definitely be forced into a lot of close-quarters combat where you aren't the one flanking.

Also, if someone bothers to heal you on a regular basis, your number one priority should be keeping them alive. Medics will like you a lot and heal you a lot if you do this effectively. I spend a ridiculous amount of time hanging back and watching flanks when I have a medic with me. There's no reason to run in recklessly if you're being healed; play it safe and make sure you don't lose a medic. Walk with them to medkits if they're low on life and communicate your plans as much as you can if you have a mic.

Anyway, all that aside, most of your skill will come from learning how different classes move and being able to predict them which just comes from playing a lot.

One soldier tip for scouts that helped me immensely: unless you're damn good at airshotting/jump prediction, you almost never want to fire a rocket at a scout that has only used one of his two jumps. Once he's taken his second jump, he's committed to a path of travel, and, with practice, you should be able to easily put a rocket where he'll land. Good competitive scouts will abuse this against you, but for pubs it's a decent rule.

Another soldier tip: never run yourself out of rockets unless you're fighting someone head on. Don't spam away your entire clip, don't spy check with your entire clip. If you fire 3 rockets at someone and miss all of them, you generally want to duck behind a wall and reload. You want to have rockets in reserve in case you get flanked, and this applies doubly if you're pocketing with a medic.

[Patrid]

unless you're damn good at airshotting/jump prediction, you almost never want to fire a rocket at a scout that has only used one of his two jumps.

If you do decide to go down this path, know that it is IMO much more harder to master than almost any other aspects of the soldier.
I suggest using a dh because they travel faster and because you do not have the luxury of large blast radius.
The practice involves large amounts of hitting or missing (story of my life). The situations are generally as follows:

An enemy is unaware of your presence or they know you are near them, but they are bee-lining back to their base or towards health
- In this case practice does make perfect. Lead shots into their projected path. Don't know where they'll be when your rocket should supposedly hit them? Timing+practice = everything.

An heavy assault enemy, ie demo, soldier, heavy are slower than most classes and therefore, then to focus most of the their attention on offensive pushes and turtling.
-If they are guarding a cap pt, sometimes it's okay to shoot at their feet. The blast radius is small, but it still exists. Dodge in between walls or other cover and use guerrilla tactics to slowly chip away at their health. (when you get really good at projecting their paths it's very beneficial to learn how to juggle, but that's a very difficult skill in itself)

For faster classes, all I can say is - know your opponent. Most people tend to either strafe in short strides from left to right, back peddle while shooting at you, or charge in a straight line towards you general direction. Lead shots into those. Otherwise, observe how they move. If they swing forth then jump and seemingly random angles like Zclipse and Toaster and TktTht tend to do, then luck is a variable.

In presence of a true flamer-
- If they W+M1, shoot them in the mf'n face, they deserve it . Unless they are really close to you, then consider shooting them in the feet so that they fly into the air giving you a chance to humiliate them with an airshot.
- If the pyro is obviously experienced and moves in unpredictable patterns while compression blasting at will, then time it so that you lead a shot into them right after they compression blast or switch to shotgun if they are that good at cb-ing.

The DH tends to kill or cripple the health of most classes with a direct hit (fitting name). That's the true beauty of it.