Spawn Camping

[cant speall]

Let me say this first-Spawn camping is a part of the game. It is one of many strategies in TF2. If a player has the skill and luck to get to the enemy spawn then there is no one but the other team to blame. It is their responsibility to take care of the spawncamper.

In addition to all of the above, you are an ass hat of the highest level, let me explain. The game is about fun, and I remember a day when the server was (more regularly) lighthearted (I am to blame for some of the aggressiveness as I myself am an ass hat). Spawncamping makes the game extremely frustrating, boring, and dumb. It really blows to get killed by a sticky trap after already waiting ~15 seconds to spawn. You're basically telling the other team to quick grab a snack before you're allowed to have fun again.

Let me use an analogy I've used in game. TF2 is like a little 4 year old blowing bubbles. Sure bubbles are fun to pop, that's kind of what they're their for, but when you're smacking the little kid in the face before the bubbles even form, everyone has less fun. That and you go to jail for hitting a little kid. So let the kid blow their bubbles, pop them after they float a little, will ya?

By the way, I'm not looking for strategies for countering spawn camping, I know them (dead ringer, uber, use the other spawn). That is not the point of this thread. I'm trying to say that the game is less fun, much less fun, when people spawn camp. If you want to be a dick feel free to spawn camp, I just want to let you know you are ruining the game for other people.

Here is a quote from reddit on the topic (not me):
"...There are many ways to get around a spawncamper, provided you know he's there. The server I play on only bans laying stickies around the spawn, since that's basically just a few no-effort kills on the part of the camper before people realize what's going on, and I find it to be a good system. The problem with spawncamping isn't that it's some brutally unfair, unbeatable tactic, but that it simply isn't fun to play against. Nobody likes walking out of spawn after waiting 15 seconds to suddenly find a kritz heavy outside the door.

Then there's also the issue of spawncamping often not being that much kredit-to-team anyway."

[Sirnak]

You (and Reddit) are right, I must say. But, ya know, it's not like cheating or being an ass demo or soldier camping at some impossible place out of the normally reachable map.

I tend to say that yes, it's bullshit to spawncamp, but it's fair. Myself, as Saharan Spy, I need to spawncamp at times to backstab people going out of the spawn so to get an easy costume. It's also a great way to get rid of Engineers that go supplying and walking back to their sentries without anybody suspecting you. All that to say that spawncamping can be strategic too, not only an ass way to get free points. o.o

[Harri]

We have some players that spawncamp every time I'm on the server with them. I generally hate playing with them. It's up to the player. If you want to be an asshat and spawncamp go ahead. It's not like I was ever going to respect your "skillz" or something.

Spawncamping is no fun. But, I really don't care much to listen to people bitch about it constantly.

[Cash]

Honestly, I never have and never will have a problem with spawncamping. If one team has allows someone to get all the way to spawn, they deserve to get camped imo. Plus, if spawn camping occurs, it usually means that the teams are unbalanced. And more often than not, the teams will get scrambled the next round, so the teams will actually end up more even (and therefore more fun?) than before.

Just my take on it...

[Guy]

Only time I attack the spawn is usually pushing people back into it. With ubers.
I usually don't hang around after my uber is finished, and if I do, tend to die a painful boolet filled, jarated death.

[VoltySquirrel]

Honestly, I have never and will never have a problem with spawncamping. If one team allows someone to get all the way to spawn, they deserve to get camped in my opinion. Plus, if spawn camping occurs, it usually means that the teams are unbalanced, and more often than not, the teams will get scrambled the next round, so the teams will actually end up more even (and therefore more fun?) than before.

Just my take on it...

Fixed that for you.

[Techercizer]

Spawn camping is like using the Huntsman in a hallway or using the Sticky Launcher in 1v1 combat all the time. It's not illegal, but it's a real dick move, and people aren't going to like you for it.

[GoDM1N]

I'm with everyone else on this, while its a dick move, I don't think its a problem. Its rare, and generally is dealt with quickly. Just check both ways before crossing he spawn door :3

[HibiscusKazeneko]

I've been on servers that have a blanket "No spawn camping" rule. Shall we enact such a rule?

[Techercizer]

I've been on servers that have a blanket "No spawn camping" rule. Shall we enact such a rule?

I think it's better if we just boo people who do it. Enacting such a rule makes a blanket statement about our community and gameplay that we may or may not want to make, and we'll probably have people whining at us to enforce it.

Can you imagine:

"Admin, that soldier shot a random Crocket towards the spawn and killed me as I left, ban him now!"

popping up? I find it's generally best to have unwritten rules about these things, and to handle them on a per-case basis.

Stigmas are almost as powerful as rules, and have none of the official liability or backlash of them.

[Ackybur]

To solve this problem be the hero to go medic and uber your way out.

[Techercizer]

To solve this problem be the hero to go medic and uber your way out.

Or say mean things in chat ^.^

[tehs4ndman]

i agree with most of the stuff said here, i dont find spawn camping a problem. when it happens its generally taken care of very quickly and well if they get behind the entire team, let them have that few kills...

[cant speall]

To solve this problem be the hero to go medic and uber your way out.

...

By the way, I'm not looking for strategies for countering spawn camping, I know them (dead ringer, uber, use the other spawn).

but thanks for playing!

[Amplify]

Tadahm! I proudly brang the subject month before you!

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=576

Now, lets enjoy the game with our without spawn camp. I also vote for prohibited spawn camp on map that has only one way out of the spawn or that is not abusive in anyway.

[Maringue]

I've been on servers that have a blanket "No spawn camping" rule. Shall we enact such a rule?

We have a rule about this: no sticky camping spawn. Demo is the only class that can keep the whole team pinned into spawn. You can overwhelm a heavy/medic pretty quickly and the heavy runs out of ammo relatively soon.

[BoB Dolen]

Remove one man's fun so the other man can have fun.

[Techercizer]

Remove one man's fun so the other man can have fun.

Other men(scratch: people). As in, the entire trapped team. Of people. Who we want playing our servers. And who have as much right to fun as the camper. Who can also have fun in a way that doesn't include spawn camping.

[GoDM1N]

Remove one man's fun so the other man can have fun.

Other men(scratch: people). As in, the entire trapped team. Of people. Who we want playing our servers. And who have as much right to fun as the camper. Who can also have fun in a way that doesn't include spawn camping.

If a entire team gets trapped by one man then we should just ban them for sucking balls

[Techercizer]

Remove one man's fun so the other man can have fun.

Other men(scratch: people). As in, the entire trapped team. Of people. Who we want playing our servers. And who have as much right to fun as the camper. Who can also have fun in a way that doesn't include spawn camping.

If a entire team gets trapped by one man then we should just ban them for sucking balls

And here I thought we were a pub server. Don't tell me you've never jumped from one 15-second respawn time to another because some "problem, stickies?" Demoman hit M2 as you opened the door to leave your spawn. I know I have, and it's not a fun way to lose a round of Payload. It's even less fun when part (or even most) of your team follows you into the ether in the 7 or so seconds it takes you to get the concept that trying to go defend the cart is a must-avoid action for the time being into your teammates' heads.

Spawn camping happens most often when one team sucks balls. It's called a steamroll, which I'm sure you're familiar with; sometimes teams just scramble themselves into really, really stacked lineups. That doesn't mean the better team is the only one that deserves to have fun. It just means that the sucky team needs to run into the battlefield, almost immediately die trying their best, and respawn feeling like they at least stood some semblance of a chance. Afterwards, the round ends about as quickly as if the loosing team had been camped, teams get scrambled, and the balance hopefully shifts closer to the center.

[GoDM1N]

And here I thought we were a pub server. Don't tell me you've never jumped from one 15-second respawn time to another because some "problem, stickies?" Demoman hit M2 as you opened the door to leave your spawn.

Ofc, it happens to me almost every map. Regardless of how sucky my team is, but as you've said its just that a pub server, no need to get my panties in a twist over it, its just 15 secs and I didn't actually lose anything.

[Techercizer]

And here I thought we were a pub server. Don't tell me you've never jumped from one 15-second respawn time to another because some "problem, stickies?" Demoman hit M2 as you opened the door to leave your spawn.

Ofc, it happens to me almost every map. Regardless of how sucky my team is, but as you've said its just that a pub server, no need to get my panties in a twist over it, its just 15 secs and I didn't actually lose anything.

Right. That's why I generally just tell my team to wait for reinforcements, bark out a quick "real skillz there spawn camper", and wait for the other 8 seconds to tic down. It's not fun, and it's usually best when it can be avoided, but there's always next round.

[GoDM1N]

Right. That's why I generally just tell my team to wait for reinforcements, bark out a quick "real skillz there spawn camper", and wait for the other 8 seconds to tic down. It's not fun, and it's usually best when it can be avoided, but there's always next round.

Or you could just do what I do when theres a spawn camper and I know about them, pop open the door then run back, fooling them to blow his load then rushing out and pwning their face.


"Death isn't fun, lets remove it from the game"

[HibiscusKazeneko]

I've been on servers that have a blanket "No spawn camping" rule. Shall we enact such a rule?

We have a rule about this: no sticky camping spawn. Demo is the only class that can keep the whole team pinned into spawn. You can overwhelm a heavy/medic pretty quickly and the heavy runs out of ammo relatively soon.

Not necessarily. A pyro can easily airblast the stickies out of the way. I do it all the time.

[doppelganger]

Hrm... this is a heated debate. To my understanding the rule has always been "if it is game altering than it is not allowed." However, all kills can be game altering of course and yet as already stated 'usually' it doesn't last long. As Sirnak has stated, there is a difference between spawn camping and killing someone near their spawn, as well. I will run past the spawn doors on plenty of maps where I need to, which sometimes results in a kill right outside the doors. On that same note, TF2 is designed around spawn camping on many maps. Attack / Defend? Defenders have 60 seconds to setup to spawn camp the attackers. The map is designed to accommodate this to an extent, but it's never fun attacking when you can't even get the first point (close matches are what excite people, win or lose). Usually when spawn camping occurs when I am playing is during a PL map where the attackers are nearing the last point or a random demo (or 2). We even have players somewhat known for that. Agreed, it is more or less tacky in my book... I pride myself on not needing an unfair advantage to kill someone. Also why I don't use exploits.

Everything said and done (and this is something I have worked a lot on and am still working on) everyone just needs to take a chill pill. So you got spawn camped once, twice, thrice... it's not the end of the world and really not worth getting upset about. That's like getting upset every time a medic doesn't heal you, a -edit- with a piss rifle set noobs you to death, or a sniper gets overhealed so headshots don't kill him anyway... Try to just laugh about it and go, well, if he needs kills THAT bad than more power to him (or her).

Then join team Mike.

[Hatred]

i think u all need to relax and try to think if there is any player that hasnt just started that hasent spawn camped at least once in there life ffs... if you said you havent you should get banned for being a lier ... all i have to say

[Rustic Apple]

I really don't understand how ONE demo can hold down a whole spawn like that. Unless he's using the ScoRes, in which case, good for him, using a thinking man's weapon. Srsly, don't everyone go out at the same time

I don't have a problem with Spawn Camping unless the majority of the enemy team is leaving the objective to do it, or my team is brain dead and can't figure out how to blow past it. Sending a Soldier/demo/heavy + medic combo to the enemy spawn to hold them down while the rest of the team caps the point is a brilliant strategy.

[Maringue]

Sticky camping, don't do it.

!kick assholedemo stickycamping





That being said, killing one person at spawn with sticky bombs is not sticky camping.

[Techercizer]

Right. That's why I generally just tell my team to wait for reinforcements, bark out a quick "real skillz there spawn camper", and wait for the other 8 seconds to tic down. It's not fun, and it's usually best when it can be avoided, but there's always next round.

Or you could just do what I do when theres a spawn camper and I know about them, pop open the door then run back, fooling them to blow his load then rushing out and pwning their face.

What I said and what you said aren't mutually exclusive. After being surprised by a spawn camper, you have nothing to do but warn your team and wait out your respawn timer. After you come back, there are of course a variety of things, ranging from pyro to scout to spy to general-class strategies that one can try.

I can't "just" do what you do though; I still need to wait to come back to life after that first unexpected explosion.

[GoDM1N]

Just buy one of these I guess :3

http://www.amazon.com/Jade-Lucky-Charms ... 890&sr=8-8

[Patrid]

1 instance I can think of that auto no-no.
2nd section of Goldrush...1 entrance
Engie cap of like 2 or 3...
If one kritz demo charges into the blue spawn (and knows how to not charge into the sentry... the rest of red occasionally charges in with them.
again... there is one entrance.
It's like playing on a server with only 6 people on it....then going heavy while another guy goes medic, it's not illegal, but it's douchy

[Amplify]

Sticky camping, don't do it.

!kick assholedemo stickycamping





That being said, killing one person at spawn with sticky bombs is not sticky camping.

Being* you all the way.


*meant behind.

[Maringue]

Being you all the way.

I think there is a little lost in translation from the Québécois.

[Amplify]

Backing you up on this translation too.

[Techercizer]

Just buy one of these I guess :3

http://www.amazon.com/Jade-Lucky-Charms ... 890&sr=8-8

I used to have one of those a few years ago... the last time I saw one in-person was back in 97 I think; good times, and a cute charm too.

[NBC011795]

I don't like spawn camped on... BUT I think spawn camping is part of the game, As he said, If you don't want them to, THEN GET THEM OUT OF THERE!!!

I do however, hate it when cheaters are spawn camping.
They are annoying.

[bjordan]

The everyday spawn camp is not fun but tolerable. However I think a lot of us (or atleast me) were getting ticked during the contest when we are losing 25 points to a random spawn camper on a regular basis. If you want a spot in the top 100, you should earn it instead of taking free kills!!!

[Hatred]

ROFL if valve didnt want this to happen they wouldnt have made it this way ...

PS. i only spawn camp to see if i kill failhorse enough doing so if i will get banned ;P its nothing personal

[Trauma Advocate]

There was some sick spawn camping tonight on Turbine. Three demomen stickying all the exits... it was pretty obscene.

Under normal circumstances, it's annoying but nothing more... sticky trapping the spawns or lying in wait with a heavy/medic is worth a warning at least though, I think.

[Sirnak]

There was some sick spawn camping tonight on Turbine. Three demomen stickying all the exits... it was pretty obscene.

Under normal circumstances, it's annoying but nothing more... sticky trapping the spawns or lying in wait with a heavy/medic is worth a warning at least though, I think.

Actually, Zclipse, Toaster and Failhorse were the 3 Demomen responsible for this. But seriously, they didn't spikytrap our spawn. They spikytrapped the exits of our "base". If that's being too much unfair, spikytraps altogether should be banned my dear Trauma. o.o

They just put pretty sick traps, but these traps wasn't at our spawn. They were farther away. :/

Besides, I don't understand why you say it was that much of a problem. I started dead ringing my way out of our base when I was killed by Toaster for the 2nd consecutive time and started working for something to allow the team to exit the base and we all managed to make our way out of our base after some time thanks to everyone's efforts, no? o.o

[Failhorse]

Hey don't throw me under the bus. I had the sticky humper. Was using pipes, and in the vents.

[Trauma Advocate]

Besides, I don't understand why you say it was that much of a problem. I started dead ringing my way out of our base when I was killed by Toaster for the 2nd consecutive time and started working for something to allow the team to exit the base and we all managed to make our way out of our base after some time thanks to everyone's efforts, no? o.o

No, everyone made it out of the base when the entire red team was masskilled (which was hilarious, btw. XD). But in my opinion, Turbine's kinda broken overall because of that sort of situation.

Honestly, in a situation like that, the only move that makes sense is to just change maps. Nobody was happy.

[Failhorse]

I believe the whole point was for some people to sit there for 20 minutes and whore kills. I made a few attempts to get the intel. Didn't realize i had the sticky jumper (instant death) for about 10 minutes.

Just proves that certain people find trolling and asshattery.... Nevermind.

[Maringue]

The sticky camping of spawn happened for a grand total of 20 or 30 seconds or so. If you make it unmolested to the other spawn as a demo you get to get a few kills in to punish the other team for sucking so badly, that's not camping.

Camping is when you are there for an extended period of time and preventing people from leaving the spawn without being insta-killed.

Oh, and Turbine licks balls as a map, so I think that's the problem more than spawn camping.

[Zclipse]

I was defending mid while my team went for the intel.

<--- Team player

[Toaster]

I believe the whole point was for some people to sit there for 20 minutes and whore kills. Just proves that certain people find trolling and asshattery.... Nevermind.

Implying that people can't just play the game with out being criticized?

The whole point of turbine is controlling the middle while the rest of the team gets the intel. So if teamwork is frowned upon in team fortress 2 then I guess the people in question should be ashamed and slapped on the wrist. If anything you're the one that was "trolling" or doing "asshatery?" if you're running around with a sticky jumper and slaying people 12 at a time . Not that I had any problem with that, it was actually pretty funny.

I'm pretty sure that game wound up a stalemate, or really close to one. Close games shouldn't have much to complain about, unless you're really looking for something to nit pick at. So come on now, failhorse, can't we all just be friends? :] Like Trauma and maringue said, Turbine is a pretty shitty map for pubs in general. It gets picked pretty often since SBII doesn't have much of a rotation though.

Edit: Z beat me to it T_T

[cant speall]

I believe the whole point was for some people to sit there for 20 minutes and whore kills. Just proves that certain people find trolling and asshattery.... Nevermind.

Implying that people can't just play the game with out being criticized?

The whole point of turbine is controlling the middle while the rest of the team gets the intel. So if teamwork is frowned upon in team fortress 2 then I guess the people in question should be ashamed and slapped on the wrist. If anything you're the one that was "trolling" or doing "asshatery?" if you're running around with a sticky jumper and slaying people 12 at a time . Not that I had any problem with that, it was actually pretty funny.

I'm pretty sure that game wound up a stalemate, or really close to one. Close games shouldn't have much to complain about, unless you're really looking for something to nit pick at. So come on now, failhorse, can't we all just be friends? :] Like Trauma and maringue said, Turbine is a pretty shitty map for pubs in general. It gets picked pretty often since SBII doesn't have much of a rotation though.

Edit: Z beat me to it T_T

I think some people are missing the point. I was there that map, and I had absolutely no fun because of the asshats. That being said, I dont believe the issue was spawn camping, not that spawn camping was even taking place. The main issue here is that Turbine is a shitty ass map. I strongly suggest adding the competitive version of the map to at least improve the suckage to a manageable level.

If you are going to troll/point whore at least have the balls to admit it. You can call this shit a duck, but it doesn't mean it'll quack.

[Toaster]

lmao

How is defending the middle on Turbine (which is completely standard play) make someone a ball-less, point whoring, ass-hat troll? It's only retard proof, anyone els can break a contain with an uber push. Then again, playing the game might be asking a bit much, I guess all this complaining and griefing of other players is completely justified.

If Turbines going to be on a 24 person server with competent players in it then there should probably be more strict class restrictions.

[GoDM1N]

I think some people are missing the point. I was there that map, and I had absolutely no fun because of the asshats. That being said, I dont believe the issue was spawn camping, not that spawn camping was even taking place. The main issue here is that Turbine is a shitty ass map. I strongly suggest adding the competitive version of the map to at least improve the suckage to a manageable level.

If you are going to troll/point whore at least have the balls to admit it. You can call this shit a duck, but it doesn't mean it'll quack.

Had to face palm at these two points, So you want to add the competitive version of a map, so theres less point whoring? What type of player do you think tends to be a point whore? (the answer is comp players)

[Techercizer]

Had to face palm at these two points, So you want to add the competitive version of a map, so theres less point whoring? What type of player do you think tends to be a point whore? (the answer is comp players)

Being currently enrolled in a really low-level league of competitive play, I feel safe saying that while many competitive players are nice people, they fight like the biggest dicks on the face of the planet.

[Toaster]

Being currently enrolled in a really low-level league of competitive play, I feel safe saying that while many competitive players are nice people, they fight like the biggest dicks on the face of the planet.

this is very true lol

[GoDM1N]

Had to face palm at these two points, So you want to add the competitive version of a map, so theres less point whoring? What type of player do you think tends to be a point whore? (the answer is comp players)

Being currently enrolled in a really low-level league of competitive play, I feel safe saying that while many competitive players are nice people, they fight like the biggest dicks on the face of the planet.

To comp players its all about dem points, they want to "prove" something, and generally they don't care if its fun playing that way or not. That said at least Zclipse will go something other than solly every now and then unlike some of the other comp players in the community.

[Techercizer]

You guys should have heard those Comp players rage when I started stabbing them ^.^

[stanley]

You guys should have heard those Comp players rage when I started stabbing them ^.^

i heard that you guys got raped terribly....

[Techercizer]

You guys should have heard those Comp players rage when I started stabbing them ^.^

i heard that you guys got raped terribly....

Oh we got rolled. I had fun though, and managed to stab their Medic twice. They got so pissed when they figured out our Medic switched to Spy....

[Toaster]

They got so pissed when they figured out our Medic switched to Spy....

Surprising considering how standard a play that is. xD

[Zclipse]

I rarely play competitive anymore if at all, it's mostly people asking me to sub or if I get bored and want to rape a lobby. Other than that it's just MGE or Pubbing.

[Techercizer]

They got so pissed when they figured out our Medic switched to Spy....

Surprising considering how standard a play that is. xD

I believe their first reaction was something along the lines of

what the fuck are you guys doing, this isn't a pub

Or something ^.^

[cant speall]

Too much side topics to warrant quoting anyone, so there really is no point . All I have to say is this-Please try to make the game tolerable for everyone. If someone even has to accuse you of point whoring dont you think you're doing something wrong (this is not a debate on your definition of right and wrong, just a figure of speech)?

Let me put it this way. You don't teach a child how to ride a bike by throwing a bike at his face. You cant expect players who are worse than you to get better when all you offer in support is "GET BETTER LOLOLOLOL, watch me kill you over and over, WHY YOU NO LEARN?". Given the spy player limits(to deter the "dead ringer" strategy that some of you seem to think is flawless) in addition to the chaos that toaster, zclipse, Konfy, (other really good players) cause for the other team, it's hard to organize people to build an uber. Even then, the chances of the uber actually killing you (the great players on the other team) are rarely 100%, especially on turbine.

You come to Critsandvich to have fun, and so do I. I want to play on a server where people dont have to beg for a scramble or map change with a red admin present choosing to slay people rather than realize people arent having fun. (given this situation, I believe most of the votes failed because 1) F2P's dont know how to vote and 2) People didnt stick around long enough to vote, they just quit thus leaving a majority of people who are on the wining, dominating team to vote no scramble/map change.)

EDIT:

I did want to address one thing Godmin said,

Re: Spawn Camping
Postby GoDM1N » Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:13 pm
Had to face palm at these two points, So you want to add the competitive version of a map, so theres less point whoring? What type of player do you think tends to be a point whore? (the answer is comp players)

Try not to get caught up in semantics. I said the competitive map because it is a better version of the map which would give all players a better chance, not just comp players. I would have called it the silly version of the map, but that would have been less accurate.

[GoDM1N]

Try not to get caught up in semantics. I said the competitive map because it is a better version of the map which would give all players a better chance, not just comp players. I would have called it the silly version of the map, but that would have been less accurate.

Its not semantics, the try-hard comp players LOOK for those maps to play on. This is why I dislike 5cp maps so much because they always attract the comp try-hards, which will generally cause us to go to yet another shitty map that attracts more comp try-hards.

Let me put it this way. You don't teach a child how to ride a bike by throwing a bike at his face. You cant expect players who are worse than you to get better when all you offer in support is "GET BETTER LOLOLOLOL, watch me kill you over and over, WHY YOU NO LEARN?".

Um, so what do you want people to do? Play shitty? People should play how and what they want. The only thing that comes close to pissing me off as much as these team stacking clans that ruin the servers are the people who are on the exact opposite end, the people who think others shouldn't play good to cater to lesser players. As I've said before, just play the game and enjoy it, if the people in the server your in are assholes, if they're too good, if you simply don't like them we have 2 other slayboxes and a funbox.

You come to Critsandvich to have fun, and so do I. I want to play on a server where people dont have to beg for a scramble or map change with a red admin present choosing to slay people rather than realize people arent having fun.

So admins should tell people how and what to play? FFS, I will leave CSN if this is ever the case

(given this situation, I believe most of the votes failed because 1) F2P's dont know how to vote

[Hatred]

... i got slayed on the funbox for walking through there spawn with my flame througher going .... they called if spawn camping .... wasnt even in there longer than 5 seconds .... stupid not so funbox

[GoDM1N]

... i got slayed on the funbox for walking through there spawn with my flame througher going .... they called if spawn camping .... wasnt even in there longer than 5 seconds .... stupid not so funbox

actually I was there, you were sitting in spawn with your flammer on Zf

[mrProtagonist]

Spawn all the camps.