Japan Nuclear Fun Facts

[Failhorse]

The reactor in Japan are about 40 years old. They were supplied by GE.

GE is not liable if they fail.

2 GE scientists quit over fears the MK1 version was flawed.

There are 23 similar in the US. 16 near major fault lines.

Fallout could reach the US in 4 days.

If there is a full meltdown. There is a 90% chance of containment failure.

Meltdown happens when the water level drops below the fuel rods.

Unchecked fission creates a lot of hydrogen which can/has exploded.

The spent fuel pools are built directly above the reactors in Japan.

Spent fuel pools are generally 15 feet of spent fuel with 30 feet of water above them.

It takes apx 1 week for the fuel to vaporize all the water in a pool.

More radiation is produced from the spent fuel than the reactor.

There is apx. 200 tons of waste rods between all facilities.

Currently these pools may be boiling.

3 of the containment building are already exposed to the elements.

1 pool has already burned, throwing radiation into the air.

There are not enough people left at the facilities to monitor everything.

In the event of full meltdown, the pressure container will break.

Followed by a hydrogen explosion. Combining the spent fuel. This will essentially be a dirty bomb that could wipe 3/4 of Japan's livable space. Deadly radiation would hit the west coast. (in 4 days.)

The similar reactors in the US are far less prepared for this type of disaster.

The Price-Anderson act protects any US nuclear facility from any liability in the event of an accident. Max they would pay 12.6 billion dollars.

Anything else is on the governments shoulders.

So much for the "free market."

[Smeemo]

There are way too many U.S. nuclear plants sitting on major fault lines for my liking.

[SpoonFox]

Germany is currently disarming 5 of their nuclear plants out of fear of it occuring there. (or so I heard)

[Failhorse]

There were 4 plants in Germany that are 40+ years old. Originally they were planning on giving 5 or 10 year extensions to them. From this crisis they are shutting them down.

[fingerman]

When do the zombies come?

[Konfy]

Yep, but only for 3 months to check how secure they are and it's actually just propaganda coz of a few elections.

The best part is that we don't even need these old plants, we have enough electricity without em. ...but the corporations making billions with these old plants and they have a powerful lobby. I would be surprised if they shut em down forever.

[Smeemo]

From your brief description, FH, that Price-Anderson Act reeked of corporatist-fascist legislation. I looked it up, and it appears that reactor owners have an "accident fund" that they pay into to disperse money to victims in the event of a "coverable event"/fucking disaster. It seems this amount is approx. $112m per reactor. Any figures on the estimated damage caused by the melting reactors so far?

edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C/2010_X1 Later this year, this comet will supposedly be passing by us about 21m mi. away. I'm starting to look into celestial bodies' as well as radiation's influence on tectonic activity, and from what I've seen so far, we should expect more major earthquakes. Additionally, and though this could be a mere correlation, there was a solar flare about the same time as the earthquake, and a large magnetic storm accompanied the Chilean earthquake a couple years back. I'm prone to being an alarmist, so take my comments with a grain of salt. But it's interesting to think about.

[HibiscusKazeneko]

Fallout could reach the US in 4 days.

According to one map distributed by an Australian hoaxer.
He's encouraging Americans on the West Coast to pump their systems full of iodine to stave off the effects of the radiation; I've heard reports on other sites of stores being totally sold out of iodine supplements because of this man's words.

edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C/2010_X1 Later this year, this comet will supposedly be passing by us about 21m mi. away. I'm starting to look into celestial bodies' as well as radiation's influence on tectonic activity, and from what I've seen so far, we should expect more major earthquakes. Additionally, and though this could be a mere correlation, there was a solar flare about the same time as the earthquake, and a large magnetic storm accompanied the Chilean earthquake a couple years back.

Or you know, there could have just been too many women strutting around without their burqas on... [/sarcasm]

I'm prone to being an alarmist, so take my comments with a grain of salt. But it's interesting to think about.

I've got a wedge of lime and a shot of tequila to go with it.

[Failhorse]

Fallout could reach the US in 4 days.

According to one map distributed by an Australian hoaxer.
He's encouraging Americans on the West Coast to pump their systems full of iodine to stave off the effects of the radiation; I've heard reports on other sites of stores being totally sold out of iodine supplements because of this man's words.

I'm not considering that in the source. That's trade wind wooey. If there is an explosion that includes waste material and that is thrown into the atmosphere, radiation will hit the US.


As for this "fund." Considering 3 mile island cost over 1 billion to clean up. And that was 70s-80s money. We're screwed.

As for extra orbital shit. If we can survive the right wing nut jobs. I'd be more worried about Apophis. Since we can't judge it's actual mass. After it's first pass it's orbit will be changed and could impact on the 2nd.

[Mike808]

hawaii is completely out of iodine pills

[Smeemo]

Hibiscus, numerous countries are seeing potassium iodide fly off the shelves, particularly in Europe. On your own time, you can research how the winds move from Japan to the U.S., but four days seems to be a decent estimate. You find it easy to discredit those who would claim radiation and magnetic activity display their effects in tectonic activity by simply implying said claimants incompetent, that they're somehow religious fundamentalists. Is that what the "burka joke" meant? I really have no idea what you were trying to say, there, so that's just my guess.

In any case, our Katrina disaster should've taught us all that our government does. not. give. a. fuck. about. us. So take what precautions you find necessary.

[HibiscusKazeneko]

Hibiscus, numerous countries are seeing potassium iodide fly off the shelves, particularly in Europe. On your own time, you can research how the winds move from Japan to the U.S., but four days seems to be a decent estimate. You find it easy to discredit those who would claim radiation and magnetic activity display their effects in tectonic activity by simply implying said claimants incompetent, that they're somehow religious fundamentalists. Is that what the "burka joke" meant? I really have no idea what you were trying to say, there, so that's just my guess.

The burqa joke was a response to an actual comment made by Iranian Muslim cleric Hojatoleslam Kazem Sedighi who claimed that immodest women cause earthquakes. There was an international uproar over the comment, including the infamous "boobquake" protest at Purdue University.

[GoDM1N]

Hibiscus, numerous countries are seeing potassium iodide fly off the shelves, particularly in Europe. On your own time, you can research how the winds move from Japan to the U.S., but four days seems to be a decent estimate. You find it easy to discredit those who would claim radiation and magnetic activity display their effects in tectonic activity by simply implying said claimants incompetent, that they're somehow religious fundamentalists. Is that what the "burka joke" meant? I really have no idea what you were trying to say, there, so that's just my guess.

The burqa joke was a response to an actual comment made by Iranian Muslim cleric Hojatoleslam Kazem Sedighi who claimed that immodest women cause earthquakes. There was an international uproar over the comment, including the infamous "boobquake" protest at Purdue University.

mmm boobquakes. I like

[BoB Dolen]

You have a link for this information by chance?

[WHAMbulance]

I am shamelessly stealing this post from Something Awful to help explain the potential for nuclear disaster. The risk factor is still somewhat low. I recommend reading the whole post to gain a fair bit of understanding about the situation...

*porting this over from another forum*

UPDATE: 8:00AM GMT, March 15th: The situation at reactors #2 and #4 continues to develop. Reactors #1 and #3 are still considered stable, reactor #2 is being filled with water again, and the fire at reactor #4 is out. This FAQ has undergone extensive revision in light of new events.

In addition, this FAQ is not going to be updated quite as often due to the personal needs of the author. Large events will be covered, but please check the last-updated time (currently in GMT for an international audience) for an idea of how recent the news will be. Items relating to scientific facts should remain useful regardless.

--

This thread is intended to move the various discussions about nuclear power, the safety of Japan's nuclear reactors, and related issues out of the general thread about the disaster in Japan. Nuclear talk has overwhelmed the discussion in that thread, along with people coming in asking for information about whether it's going to be another Chernobyl.

But first, a FAQ (updated at 8:00AM GMT, March 15th):


What in the hell is going on here?

In the aftermath of the recent earthquake and tsunami in Japan, two nuclear power stations on the east coast of Japan have been experiencing problems. They are the Fukushima Daiichi ("daiichi" means "number one") and Fukushima Daini ("number two") sites, operated by the Tokyo Electric Power Company (or TEPCO). Site one has six reactors, and site two has four. The problematic reactors are #1, #2, #3 and (in a different way) #4 at site one. Reactors one through three are the oldest of the ten and were due to be decommissioned this year.

In short, the earthquake combined with the tsunami have impaired the cooling systems at these reactors, which has made it difficult for TEPCO to shut them down completely. Reactors #1 and #3 are now considered safe after crew flooded the reactors with sea water. Reactor #2 is undergoing the sea water injection process but has experienced multiple complications. Reactors four through six were shut down for inspection before the earthquake occurred and are all in cold shutdown; however, the building that houses #4 experienced a fire unrelated to the reactor core.

The four reactors at site two did not have their systems impaired and have shut down normally.

There has been an evacuation in a radius of 20km around site one, and 10km around site two. Due to recent events, the Prime Minister of Japan has asked people between 20km and 30km of site one to remain indoors for the time being.

Where are you getting this information?

This FAQ is based on information taken from primary sources: press conferences by the Japanese government and TEPCO as shown on Japanese television, TEPCO press releases, independent documentation about the type of reactor, and statements by the Japanese Nuclear Safety Commission, the Japanese Nuclear and Industry Safety Agency, and the International Atomic Energy Agency.

Can this cause a nuclear explosion?

No. It is physically impossible for a nuclear power station to explode like a nuclear weapon.

Nuclear bombs work by causing a supercritical fission reaction in a very small space in an unbelievably small amount of time. They do this by using precisely-designed explosive charges to combine multiple subcritical masses of nuclear material so quickly that they bypass the critical stage and go directly to supercritical, and with enough force that the resulting supercritical mass cannot melt or blow itself apart before all of the material is fissioned. This requires extremely precise engineering, which is why building nuclear bombs is not a simple process regardless of how simple the basic idea is.

Current nuclear power plants are designed around subcritical masses of radioactive material, which are manipulated into achieving limited supercriticality for sustained fission through the use of neutron moderators. The heat from this fission is used to convert water to steam, which drives electric generator turbines. (This is a drastic simplification.) They are not capable of exploding like a bomb; if a reactor's nuclear core underwent an uncontrolled supercritical reaction, the energy produced would melt the nuclear fuel instead of exploding, which is what the makers of nuclear bombs have to try very hard to prevent.

Making a nuclear bomb is very difficult, and it is completely impossible for a nuclear reactor to accidentally become a bomb. Secondary systems, like cooling or turbines, can explode due to pressure and stress problems, but these are not nuclear explosions.

Is this a meltdown?

Technically, yes, but not in the way that most people think.

The term "meltdown" is not used within the nuclear industry, because it is insufficiently specific. The popular image of a meltdown is when a nuclear reactor's fuel core goes out of control and melts its way out of the containment facility. This has not happened, although the likelihood of his happening in the future is difficult to determine at this time.

What has happened in reactor #1 and #3 is a "partial fuel melt". This means that the fuel core has suffered damage from heat but the containment vessels are intact and no fuel has escaped containment. Core #2 is suspected to have experienced minor damage. Confinement on reactor #2 is holding but still at risk, although water levels are rising and pumping is continuing.

How did this happen? Aren't there safety systems?

When the earthquakes in Japan occurred on March 11th, all ten reactor cores "scrammed", which means that their control rods were inserted automatically. This shut down the active fission process, and the cores have remained shut down since then.

The problem is that even a scrammed reactor core generates "decay heat", which requires cooling. Under normal conditions, the cores require active cooling for a few days to over a week before they enter a "cold shutdown" state. When the tsunami arrived shortly after the earthquake, it damaged the external power generators that the sites used to power their cooling systems. This meant that while the cores were shut down, they were still boiling off the water used as coolant because they had not yet achieved cold shutdown.

This caused two further problems. First, the steam caused pressure to build up within the containment vessel. Second, once the water level subsided, parts of the fuel rods were exposed to the air inside the containment vessel, causing the heat to build up more quickly, leading to core damage from the heat.

What's this about fuel rods being exposed to the air?

When the coolant levels inside the reactor get low enough, the tops of the fuel rods will be exposed to the air inside the containment vessel. They have not been exposed to the external atmosphere and the containment vessels are all currently intact. When news reports describe "fuel rods exposed to air", this is what they mean.

What are they doing about it? What was this about explosions?

From the very beginning, TEPCO has had the option to flood the reactor chambers with boron-enriched sea water, which would replace the normal cooling systems and allow the reactors to perform their normal cooldown. Unfortunately, this also destroys the reactors permanently due to the corrosive nature of sea water and other factors. Doing so would cost TEPCO and Japanese taxpayers billions of dollars, even though these reactors were due to be decommissioned shortly. More importantly, it would make those reactors unavailable for generating electricity during a nationwide disaster. The sea water method is a "last resort" in this sense, but it has always been an option.

To avoid this, TEPCO first took steps to bring the cooling systems back online and to reduce the pressure on the inside of the containment vessel. This involved bringing in external portable generators, repairing damaged systems, venting steam and gases from inside the containment vessel, and other tasks. These methods worked for reactor #2 at site one, prior to complications; reactors four through six were shut down before for inspection before the earthquake hit. However, reactors #1 and #3 did not respond properly to these attempts, and it was decided to flood reactor #1 and later #3 with sea water.

One of the byproducts of reactors like the ones at Fukushima is hydrogen. Normally this gas is vented and burned slowly. More hydrogen gas than usual may have been generated due to damage to the fuel cores in reactors #1 and #3. Due to the nature of the accident, the vented hydrogen gas was not properly burned as it was released. This led to a build up of hydrogen gas inside the reactor #1 building, but outside the containment vessel.

During the flooding of reactor #1 with sea water, this gas ignited, causing the top of the largely cosmetic external shell to be blown off. This shell was made of sheet metal on a steel frame and did not require a great deal of force to be destroyed. The reactor itself was not damaged in this explosion, and there were only four minor injuries. This was a conventional chemical reaction and not a nuclear explosion.

You see what happened in this photo. Note that other than losing the sheet metal covering on the top, the reactor building is intact. No containment breach occurred, and eventually the water level in reactor #1 was declared "stable", with the fuel rods not exposed to air, and it continued towards cold shutdown.



At about 2:30AM GMT on March 14th, a similar explosion occurred at the reactor #3 building. This explosion was not unexpected, as TEPCO had warned that one might occur. It was been announced that the containment vessel was not breached and that the sea water process was continuing. Eventually it was declared "stable" like reactor #1 was.

Around 7:30AM GMT on March 14th, it was announced that the explosion at reactor #3 had damaged the already limping cooling systems of reactor #2. The sea water treatment given to reactors #1 and #1 began to be applied to #2.

At around 9PM GMT on March 15th, something unknown happened inside the suppression pool in reactor #2, causing a loud noise and the pressure levels within the pool to drop. Exactly what happened is unknown, but the water levels and pressure within the containment vessel itself are unchanged. Unnecessary crew have been evacuated as a precaution, according to official procedures. They are continuing to pump sea water into reactor #2, reportedly with some success. Reports have described the fuel rods as being partially exposed to air (see above) but with a rising water level. It is unknown what the long-term effect of the suppression pool event will be, as its primary use is during power generation through the turbines.

What about the fire?

Reactor #4 was in cold shutdown and was not originally considered at risk. However, shortly after the suppression pool incident at #2, it was revealed that reactor #4's building had caught fire some time previously. The exact cause of this is unknown, but the primary suspect is the explosion at the building of reactor #3. This fire has since been extinguished.

Reports indicate that the fire in reactor #4's building may have affected the storage pool containing spent fuel rods. This may be related to a sudden spike in radioactivity about the site (see below).

Is there radiation leakage?

That is a question with a complicated answer. To cover this properly we need to talk about how radiation is measured.

There are several ways of measuring radiation exposure. In this case, we are going to be using the "Gray" (or Gy) and the "Sievert" (or Sv). For the purposes of this article, they are equivalent. The radiation outside the problematic Fukushima reactors is currently being measured in micro-Svs per hour; the "μ" prefix in "μSv" is "micro", or one-millionth of an Sv.

Here is a chart showing the effects of various radiation poisoning levels. For comparison, there is also a chart of normal radiation exposure levels from things like medical x-rays and airline flights. Radiation exposure does not become an immediate health risk until around 1Sv. Radiation exposure is cumulative, if there is not a substantial period of time between exposures.

Containment on the live reactors has not, at this time, been breached. There is, as far as we know, no leaks of live reactor fuel or anything similar. This does not mean that there is not high-than-normal raditation levels around Fukushima site one, for several reasons.

One reason that the radiation levels immediately outside the plant are higher than usual was due to the deliberate release of radioactive steam. These levels go up during venting, into the 700 to 1500 microSv per hour range and then very quickly decrease to almost normal background levels, as the radioactive material in this steam has a very short half-life. This venting is done to reduce pressure inside the reactor containment vessels.

There have also been very minor releases of radioactive reactor byproducts like iodine and cesium along with the steam. This material is less radioactive than the typical output of coal power plants and has very short half-lives. It is significant mainly as an indicator of the state of the reactor cores, as radioactive iodine and cesium are a sign that there there has been core damage.

However, roughly simultaneously with the suppression pool event at reactor #2 and the fire at reactor #4's building, an alarming spike in radiation measurements occurred. This has since decreased, but for a short period of time the radiation levels at site one were dangerously high, in the 400 milli-seivert per hour range close to the reactor #4 building.

These levels did not last for more than a few minutes, and they have since dropped down to less dangerous levels. The last available reading at the site gate shows 489.8μSv/hr and dropping at 7:30PM GMT on the 15th. It is not currently known precisely what caused this spike, although the fire at the spent fuel rod pool at reactor #4's building is a strong suspect.

Is Tokyo in danger?

Currently, measured radiation levels are slightly higher than normal in many areas of Japan at the moment, including parts of Tokyo. However, they are still down in single- or double-digit microSv per hour levels, far below any danger.

This does not mean that future events might not change this. Events such as a spent fuel rod fire (see below) could cause more widespread problems, depending on the severity of the incident.

Is a "China Syndrome" meltdown possible?

Strictly speaking, no, any fuel melt situation at Fukushima will be limited, because the fuel is physically incapable of having a runaway fission reaction. This is due to their light water reactor design.

In a light water reactor, water is used as both a coolant for the fuel core and as a "neutron moderator". What a neutron moderator does is very technical (you can watch a lecture which includes this information here), but in short, when the neutron moderator is removed, the fission reaction will stop.

An LWR design limits the damage caused by a meltdown, because if all of the coolant is boiled away, the fission reaction will not keep going, because the coolant is also the moderator. The core will then only generate decay heat, which while dangerous and strong enough to melt the core, is not nearly as dangerous as an active fission reaction.

The containment vessel at Fukushima should be strong enough to resist breaching even during a decay heat meltdown. The amount of energy that could be produced by decay heat is easily calculated, and it is possible to design a container that will resist it. If it is not, and the core melts its way through the bottom of the vessel, it will end up in a large concrete barrier below the reactor. It is nearly impossible that a fuel melt caused by decay heat would penetrate this barrier. A containment vessel failure like this would result in a massive cleanup job but no leakage of nuclear material into the outside environment.

A worst case scenario regarding the cores is a containment vessel failure combined with an uncontrolled release of radioactive steam. This would cause a localized and temporary increase in radioactivity similar to what is already present (see below) but would not result in actual nuclear fuel leakage or widespread contamination. It is this possibility that lead to the evacuations.

It appeas that the fuel rod cooling problem has been largely but not completely solved through the flooding of the chambers with boron-enriched sea water. Reactors #1 and #3 have stable water levels and are therefore considered a low risk for further core melting. Reactor #2 continued to have problems, and it has only been announced recently that water flow has been re-restablished and that the fuel core is being covered again.

I read that there's a plume of radioactive material heading across the Pacific.

In its current state, the steam blowing east from Japan across the pacific is less dangerous than living in Denver for a year. If it makes it across the ocean, it will be almost undetectable by the time it arrives, and completely harmless as the dangerous material in the steam will have decayed by then.

The United States aircraft carrier Ronald Reagan passed through this plume and suffered no long-term effects. The material was removed with soap and water and the ship is now considered contamination-free.

Future incidents may generate more dangerous plumes, but it remains unlikely that anything dangerous could cross the Pacific and remain so. The accident at Chernobyl generated tremendous amounts of airborne radioactive material, and it was unable to travel more than 1500 miles, less than half the distance to the United States.

Do we need to worry about site two?

The four reactors at site two did not have their external power damaged by the tsunami, and are therefore operating normally, albeit in a post-scram shutdown state. They have not required any venting, and reactors #1, #2, and #3 are already in full cold shutdown.

Can this end up like Chernobyl?

No, it cannot. for several reasons.

* Chernobyl used graphite as a neutron moderator and water as a coolant. For complicated reasons, this meant that as the coolant heated up and converted to steam, the fission reaction intensified, converting even more water to steam, leading to a feedback effect. The Fukushima reactors use water as both the coolant and the neutron moderator, which means that as the water heats up and converts to steam, the reaction slows down instead. (The effect of the conversion of water coolant to steam on the performance of a nuclear reactor is known as the "void coefficient", and can be either positive or negative.)

* Chernobyl was designed so that as the nuclear fuel heated up, the fission reaction intensified, heating the core even further, causing another feedback effect. In the Fukushima reactors, the fission reaction slows down as the fuel heats up. (The effect of heating of the nuclear fuel on the performance of a nuclear reactor is known as the "temperature coefficient", and can also be positive or negative.)
* Chernobyl's graphite moderator was flammable, and when the reactor exploded, the radioactive graphite burned and ended up in the atmosphere. The Fukushima reactors use water as a neutron moderator, which is obviously not flammable.


Note that while Chernobyl used light water as a coolant (as distinct from heavy water), it was not a "light water reactor". The term LWR refers strictly to reactors that use light water for both cooling and neutron moderation.

The closest thing that could happen to a Chernobyl-like incident is if the spent fuel rods at the site caught fire and continued to burn. This could create large amounts of radioactive smoke, which would be more dangerous that the vented steam because it would contain nuclear material with much longer lives. So far, this appears to have been averted, but the possibility remains.

The news said this was the worst nuclear power accident since Chernobyl, though.

That's not saying much, considering the competition. The IAEA rates nuclear events on a scale where level four is "Accident with Local Consequences"; the Fukushima situation is the only class five event involving an actual power station since Chernobyl in 1986, which makes it easy to be the "worst".

This is a serious accident, but so far it is no Chernobyl. There have been no deaths, no loss of reactor containment, and no release of long-lived radioactive material.

Is this like Three Mile Island?

There are similarities. So far, the radiactive material released into the environment is greater than that at TMI, but like TMI there have been no deaths. Also like TMI, regardless of the final result of this incident, the PR damage to the nuclear power industry will have been tremendous.

How do we know the Japanese government and TEPCO aren't lying?

When Chernobyl occurred, the Soviet government attempted to keep it quiet. They failed, in part because the nuclear material and radiation detection equipment at reactors adn universtities in other countries detected it. It is extremely difficult to keep these sort of accidents a secret.

The United States aircraft carrier Ronald Reagan is nuclear-powered, and therefore has all of the same detection equipment that a land-based reactor would have. It is currently offshore of Japan, and it has detected nothing to contradict the official statements from the Japanese government and TEPCO.

However, the fire at reactor #4's building was not reported for several hours. This has led many people both in Japan and abroad to question the accuracy of TEPCO's reporting to the government and news. In addition, the presence of spent fuel rods in reactor #4's building after a major disaster is disquieting, as one would normally expect that dangerous material would have been moved to safe storage at the first opportunity.

Faith in TEPCO's ability to handle the situation has been shaken, but they would be unable to hide any events resulting in the release of radioactive material. They know this and it seems unlikely that they would try.

Given the candor of the Japanese government given these events so far, including the Prime Minister's open admission of severe problems at Fukushima site one in conjunction with a plea to keep calm, it seems unlikely that they would deliberately lie about any future developments. Time will tell.

Original post:

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3396817&pagenumber=1

[Failhorse]

I like my FAQ better.

Bob i have no link to info. Started with some comments on the radio then i just used google.

The larger fact is inaccurate. The MK 1 reactors could have a runaway fission reaction. the 2's can't (though i doubt it's impossible.)


What sickens me is every 1st world nation publicly said they'd hold off on doing anything nuke and power related because of this accident. At least to you know, do more research. Well everyone except Republicans.

[Maringue]

Ok, I'm going to interject as a scientist here. Caviot: I'm currently drunk. A meltdown is an amorphous word. Technically, a meltdown occurs when the fuel rods get so hot that the melt, then continue getting so hot that the melt straight through the walls of the reactor, THEN get so hot that they melt through the Earths crust until the hit the water line and explode due to the massive release of steam. That said, any time the fuel rod construction melts, it's considered a metldown.

Chernobyl was so bad because the containment vessel was built like shit and the fuel rods melted straight though it and hit the water table and BANG, radiation everywhere. The current Japanese reactors where built to prevent this.

End of story, from a scientific prospective, shit is bad, but it's bot god damned Armageddon. The reactor is not going to meltdown to the water table.

We only have something like 4-5 reactors in California, the only earthquake prone area in our country. Nuclear reactors are far safer in the long run than shit like coal or gas.

[KillerProtist]

Quick! Everyone go out and buy Iodine, let's not give it to the Japanese people that actually need it.

[Failhorse]

Ok, I'm going to interject as a scientist here. Caviot: I'm currently drunk. A meltdown is an amorphous word. Technically, a meltdown occurs when the fuel rods get so hot that the melt, then continue getting so hot that the melt straight through the walls of the reactor, THEN get so hot that they melt through the Earths crust until the hit the water line and explode due to the massive release of steam. That said, any time the fuel rod construction melts, it's considered a metldown.

Chernobyl was so bad because the containment vessel was built like shit and the fuel rods melted straight though it and hit the water table and BANG, radiation everywhere. The current Japanese reactors where built to prevent this.

End of story, from a scientific prospective, shit is bad, but it's bot god damned Armageddon. The reactor is not going to meltdown to the water table.

We only have something like 4-5 reactors in California, the only earthquake prone area in our country. Nuclear reactors are far safer in the long run than shit like coal or gas.

Meltdown is slightly incorrect there. These particular reactors would face an issue in the containment vessel. Excess hydrogen + combiners = big bada boom. spent fuel ejected into the atmosphere.

I'm sad marginue didn't read my fun facts.
Saying Nuclear is safer than coal? Really... You cannot prevent all disasters, and you have nowhere to store the fuel safely. They can't even decide on a sign for people 10k years from now that this stuff will kill you.

Not to mention we could be off fossil fuels entirely by 2040 if we took all this money and put it into green tech. Of course we cant' do that.

[GoDM1N]

You can watch the full EP here.
http://www.amazon.com/Nukes-Hybrids-amp ... B000W4UI06

[Failhorse]

So pellet reactors are safer? I don't buy it. Sure they're lower temperatures, but crystallization is a huge danger.
Anyone can find the biggest dumb ass to prove their point.

1) we cannot find a safe way to dispose of the fuel.
2) Where the hell is the free market on this? The government stopped new reactors because the liability wasn't worth their time... Essentially. We give sweet heart deals to power companies every day. They get protected by the government, touted by Republicans, when it goes against what their values should be. A coal plant here in IL was guaranteed by 12 townships. In return they'd be able to buy power at reduced prices. What happened? 6 billion dollars in cost overruns. The power company essentially sold all the shares of the power plant. Kept the money and ran off, so the towns would have to deal with it.

Funny how they scream free market, until it's something that could put them under. 1 incident without gov't protections would put every nuke loving company out of business.

Luckily here in IL, Quinn vetoed a bill that would have wasted another 10 billion in tax dollars. 2 subsidized power plants and 1 big sweetheart deal.

[GoDM1N]

1) we cannot find a safe way to dispose of the fuel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yucca_Moun ... repository

Found the full ep on youtube for free.

[Failhorse]

Yah i will take that with a grain of salt.

OK so 400? reactors to get our electricity needs off fossil fuels. lets say it was 100. A total cost of 4 trillion dollars to construct. All subsidized by our government. (at apx 40 billion each to construct.) Add the additional cost of 25 tons of nuclear waste per year, per reactor. Meesa thinks we'd need a bigger mountain. AND spend another 12 million dollars to discuss a sign someone would understand 250,000 years from now. (hey coming in here will kill you. ... wasn't good enough.)

If we put 1 trillion dollars into solar/wave/wind research. Then spend 1 trillion dollars in construction we'd need no yucca mountain and nearly 3/4 of our energy needs would be covered. Would take less than 15 years and employee close to 26 million people.

Considering Penn is bought and paid for by the Republican party. The repub party is bought and paid for by big business. (don't get me wrong everyone is.)

[WHAMbulance]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sakN2hSVxA&feature=player_embedded

Ohhhhhh, It all makes so much sense now. Damn nuclear farts.