Thinking about writing again... need some help

[Failhorse]

I use to write a lot in my spare time. To put it more bluntly I worked on the same story for close to 10 years. Something close to 1200 pages of 10pt new times roman to be precise. That includes 10-12 rewrites of the first 25 pages. I could never get it right and it bugged the crap out of me. On top of it I was only 1/2 way through the story. But the premise had no real ending. Add 200+ characters spanning about 1000 years, it was pretty complicated. It was a fiction piece based on some obscure Babylonian myths.

I was thinking about starting with something fresh. I have an idea. I've never been one to write simple fiction. But I need some help developing the basic plot without getting to sci-fi or fantasy. Like to keep things as grounded as possible.

Essentially the story will be about time travel. But with a twist. The basic idea is trashing the pop culture belief on time travel. IE where you can go back in time change something, then all of reality changes with it. If that makes sense. Essentially I'm combining the belief that every choice everyone ever has could create a possible reality. Not go into that directly. Only have 1 directed event cause 2 tandem realities. Again I don't want this to be a direct sci-fi piece. The "time change" would be something that caused yet stopped the dark ages of mankind. One reality where the dark ages occurred leading to the present day we all know and love. A 2nd where it didn't happen, leading to an early golden age for mankind. Backstory on that briefly. Figure the dark ages never happening, we'd be 300+ years advanced. Not only in technology but the human psyche would be radically different.

I write character driven stuff. So the basis of technology, changes, and other general sci-fi type things will be mentioned but not over explained. The basic premise of the story. A scientist discovers this other reality (ours.) Through research he finds that at some point in history the time line was changed. Later discovering he's the one who created this second reality by going back in time and accidentally changing the time line. Basically he's under the belief that his time line is the correct one, and the second was created due to his meddling in the first place. The golden age time line will be presented as "advanced" humans. They think different, and even in a different "universe," no human should suffer. Since the time line was already changed. His believe of simply not doing it would fix the time line. IE not going back in time and "changing" anything. But this disrupts both realities. He's left with the dilemma of changing history, against his values, to preserve his reality. To complicate things. The "our" universe, because of the disruptions discovers the other. And being "savage" will lead to other issues. Simply "us" wanting to destroy "them."


OK so that's the basic idea. I need some help though. First the basic plot is holy. (puns) But I'm also terrible with starting off a story.
Ideas and suggestions are welcome.

[doppelganger]

There is a belief that UFOs are actually time travelers in time machines. Dunno if you've heard that before, but just an idea you could possibly roll with. There have been reportings of UFOs for thousands of years, imagine a person from the future going back in time and pretending to be a god, thus creating the religions we know today.

[Fencerboy]

I agree all great si-fi novels don't over explain things that are different from our world

also Fahrenheit 451 and 1984 are 2 books that come to mind if u need some ideas for a futuristic world

[Vivi Hill]

Very cool. I have always considered the alternate reality solution is the most realistic when it comes to time travel. I don't read much anymore (a real shame) but I've always loved sci-fi books like this.

I know when I was in 8th grade I wrote the first chapters of a sci fi book... I ought to find that and save it somewhere before the hard drive it's on fails...

[Failhorse]

Bradbury is one of my fav authors. Anyone have an ideas to shore up the plot a bit? I guess I need a scientific evaluation.

Not to concerned with how I'm going to present what the future looks like. Also have an idea how the golden age world will feel like. Both are more an after thought, since it's all character driven.

Also anyone know of anything that is similar to this? My other project failed as people who read it thought the "epic" was too similar to some modern stories. (Actually some modern stories mixed with recent trilogies.)

EDIT.
For instance in the shabby plot I have going on right now. Why would someone who discovered an alternate reality come to the conclusion "time travel."

[Smeemo]

imagine a person from the future going back in time and pretending to be a god, thus creating the religions we know today.

Reminds me of the Bene Gesserit in Dune. The protagonist is spared by the indigenous peoples because the "cult" he belongs to was there thousands of years ago to spread religious propaganda should one of their own get stranded on the planet. Mmmmmmm Dune.

Anyway, your ideas sound neat. I especially like the trouble the protagonist would be in once those in "our" dimension become aware of their counterparts.

In Chrono Trigger , there ended up being a malicious space-traveling parasite that was responsible for manipulating time to its advantage (basically trying to "fatten up" the planet for harvest). Would there be a grand evil conspirator in your tale?

[Failhorse]

The reasoning for my entire story premise. Why can't both happen at the same time.
Seriously. My idea came from this.

[Smeemo]

Why would someone who discovered an alternate reality come to the conclusion "time travel."

It sounds like you don't want to get too hard science-y, but theoretically, isn't time travel akin to dimensional travel? Maybe the scientist doesn't first think "time travel," but in trying to reach the timeline through dimensional travel, he comes to realize the role time plays.

All of this takes place in our universe? I've read theories of how our universe might just be one in a "foam" of universes...

[VoltySquirrel]

Why would someone who discovered an alternate reality come to the conclusion "time travel."

It sounds like you don't want to get too hard science-y, but theoretically, isn't time travel akin to dimensional travel? Maybe the scientist doesn't first think "time travel," but in trying to reach the timeline through dimensional travel, he comes to realize the role time plays.

All of this takes place in our universe? I've read theories of how our universe might just be one in a "foam" of universes...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaotic_Inflation_theory

[squar3d]

Time travel. ahhh the joys. Your dimensional travel sounds similar to "timeline" by Michael Crichton http://www.amazon.com/Timeline-Michael-Crichton/dp/0345468260/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1301346673&sr=1-1. it's a pretty good read. Interestingly enough he references a book in the index (might be wrong its been like 8+ years since i read it) "Hyperspace" by Michio Kaku http://www.amazon.com/Hyperspace-Scientific-Odyssey-Parallel-Universes/dp/0385477058. This is quite a good read. Basically he is talking about Grand Unified Theory (essentially mathematically uniting all physical calculations Magnetism, weak force, classical mechanics, gravity etc) by use of higher dimensions. He also specifically addresses this splitting of universe, that you and Michael Crichton reference, that arises from a hypothesis surrounding the quantum mechanical effects seen in the Double Slit Experimenthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-slit_experiment. Middle of the book is a bit tough if you haven't taking much higher level physics stuff (excessive discussion about sub-atomic particles and matrix theory .blaagh)

I would be happy to help or explain some stuff, if you so wish.Since this forum is indexed so frequently by Google, I bet you would appreciate that the plot/details of your writing manefesto's is not displayed to all your millions of readers. To decrease being seen by the Eye of Sauron (i.e. Google), just send me a PM.

Sorry if this isn't english, I never was a writer.

[Failhorse]

Volty aside from the multi-verse aspect of CFT there's really no correlation.

OK so a scientist discovers a universe running in tandem to his own. He catches "ghosts." This society being more advanced, but still holding the "humanity needs to discover and investigate" shit. As a whole decide to creep into this other universe, for exploration purposes. I'm still not finding a plausible reason to introduce the time travel part. Being an accident would be too easy. Saying the scientist invented time travel, due to some horrific accident.. in turn discovering the alt universe. is also too easy.

I could take this in a completely different direction. OK so scientist discovers all of the above. Doesn't realize his universe was created form whatever he did. Decides not to do it again. putting both at jeopardy. From the future eminent collapse, his future self visits him and convinces him to do whatever.... Seems like it ended up fixing everything. But more meddling created a 3rd universe that does collapse, and threatens to destroy the other 2. In the end there is no solution. Everything is destroyed. Or started over.

EDIT adding unified theory before seeing that post. Honestly i'm not to worried about others seeing this. Most likely i'll get nowhere in the story.

[Fencerboy]

is your problem how to segway into time travel?

by the way u are describing your story u might not need to go into depth about time travel
maybe there was one event in the middle ages that differed their universe from ours

instead of a time machine it could be something that makes him go to a different diminsion

[Echoplex]

You should check out Rant by Chuck Palahniuk. It's by the same guy who wrote Fight Club, Survivor, Choke, etc

Anyway, it's a pretty novel take on time travel (iirc "Time is like a chain link fence, something you can't hardly fuck up") not to mention the loads of dark humor and satire that Palahniuk is known for

[squar3d]

If you go with the "multiverse" theory, there are essentially a infinite number of parallel universe. So I think you should go a different route. Basically what you need a singular splitting. an event so powerful that it fractures the spacetime. Hypothetically at big bang we have these huge concentrated forces, and the theory goes that the big bang event causes the extra dimensions 4-10 to curl up. These aren't like parallel dimensions, more like spatial dimensions.

So what else is powerful... black holes. they also rip the fabric of spacetime. You can conceivable create micro black holes with supercoilders, but these disappear so they also are no good (but you could use some version of this). Essentially what you need is a lot of concentrated energy. For example in the movie "Primer" as creating a device that effects the dark matter (really heady energy manipulation) of an object and they accidentally create a time travel device.

You could claim that he quantum tunneled to a parallel universe, but this would only work as a one time event. (astronomical probabilities here, but it is possible).

Somehow a large energy should be introduced to cause the tearing of space time, regardless if it was by accident or purpose.

[Failhorse]

OK I think i got an idea for that part. Not really looking to elaborate the mulitverse, but I can squeak by on something...

Part 2. What singular event would have to happen to prevent the dark ages. I'm going a couple hundred years late. Realistically there would be no way to prevent the Roman Empire from falling. Not without radically changing history prior to it. I'm thinking of going the Genghis Khan route. For all his evils, a lot of positives started with him. Not to mention if early Muslim beliefs were more embraced we would have forgotten their 400 years of discovery. And if Khan's ideas on tolerance were forced upon Europeans. We could have pulled out of the dark ages a lot sooner.

So my thought is somehow Khan's life is extended long enough for his established government to "really" be created. I guess long enough for his hordes to invade Europe. Because of this early science continues to develop. Preventing the black plague from starting...


Ideas? And how... lol.

[GoDM1N]

The basic premise of the story. A scientist discovers this other reality (ours.) Through research he finds that at some point in history the time line was changed. Later discovering he's the one who created this second reality by going back in time and accidentally changing the time line. Basically he's under the belief that his time line is the correct one, and the second was created due to his meddling in the first place.

Maybe after running endless experiments he should end up finding out that no matter what he does, he will go back in time, it isn't something he can control. He goes back and changes the future but not in the way you mentioned above. Instead of making it better he makes it worse because he wasn't suppose to use the time machine. People from the future were suppose to come back and take him to the past instead. From there he starts mucking about, causes the dark ages, and assumes he failed. The people from the future assume all is lost and this causes chaos to the more advanced people of what is actually the original future and they fall into the dark ages themselves and end up destroying the earth. Meanwhile our main character comes back to present time and everything is as he remembers it and he assumes he was actually successful. In 300 years the world becomes as advanced as the people in what was actually the original future and never fall into the dark ages a 2nd time in the future or destroying the earth

[LegendarySurgeon]

I like your premise. I immediately thought of the multiverse theory wherein every possible decision exists in one of infinitely alternate realities. However, the key idea you seem to be trying to express is that there is one fundamentally other important reality. My thought on this is that somehow your scientific protagonist (and possibly related characters) cause a second reality to exist that is not an entirely separate universe. To this end he begins seeing "ghosts" as you mentioned with increasing frequency as the episode of the secondary universe's creation approaches. By about midway into the story there is a breaking point where the ghosts increase to the point of being nearly overwhelming and then there is the catalystic event that causes the secondary universe to exist.

At this point you have to decide how you want to shape the conflict between the two universes. Because the two universes are fundamentally the same, sort of siamese-twin realities, you could have the conflict that be only one universe can exist safely and to that end the universes and their denizens try to destroy the other. At this point time travel may play a larger part of the plot perhaps, as future entities in both timelines try to move between the timelines and cause more damage.

It seems like the conclusion must be a tragic success. The protagonist must sacrifice himself and destroy an entire reality that could have been to save his own. Or, alternatively, he destroys everything he has ever known to save a "better" reality that could have been. Perhaps he will do it with the aid of people from both realities. Maybe he falls in love with someone from the reality he destroys.

In regard to what event would have to happen to prevent the dark ages, you shouldn't feel the need to limit the protagonist's accidental influence. Perhaps as he is trying to study the phenomena he creates a massive model of the Roman Empire, driven by the things he sees and experiences in the days leading up to the event. At the final moments as the phenomena becomes overwhelming he attacks the map, or damages it accidentally, wiping out part of the world of ancient europe both in the model and in the past. Maybe he destroys Rome directly. Maybe he drastically changes the terrain of the world, flattening the Alps or the Urals or closing the Mediterranean Sea from the Atlantic Ocean.

[VoltySquirrel]

The basic premise of the story. A scientist discovers this other reality (ours.) Through research he finds that at some point in history the time line was changed. Later discovering he's the one who created this second reality by going back in time and accidentally changing the time line. Basically he's under the belief that his time line is the correct one, and the second was created due to his meddling in the first place.

Maybe after running endless experiments he should end up finding out that no matter what he does, he will go back in time, it isn't something he can control. He goes back and changes the future but not in the way you mentioned above. Instead of making it better he makes it worse because he wasn't suppose to use the time machine. People from the future were suppose to come back and take him to the past instead. From there he starts mucking about, causes the dark ages, and assumes he failed. The people from the future assume all is lost and this causes chaos to the more advanced people of what is actually the original future and they fall into the dark ages themselves and end up destroying the earth. Meanwhile our main character comes back to present time and everything is as he remembers it and he assumes he was actually successful. In 300 years the world becomes as advanced as the people in what was actually the original future and never fall into the dark ages a 2nd time in the future or destroying the earth

You're kinda describing the plot of the Butterfly Effect there GoDM1N.

[GoDM1N]

The basic premise of the story. A scientist discovers this other reality (ours.) Through research he finds that at some point in history the time line was changed. Later discovering he's the one who created this second reality by going back in time and accidentally changing the time line. Basically he's under the belief that his time line is the correct one, and the second was created due to his meddling in the first place.

Maybe after running endless experiments he should end up finding out that no matter what he does, he will go back in time, it isn't something he can control. He goes back and changes the future but not in the way you mentioned above. Instead of making it better he makes it worse because he wasn't suppose to use the time machine. People from the future were suppose to come back and take him to the past instead. From there he starts mucking about, causes the dark ages, and assumes he failed. The people from the future assume all is lost and this causes chaos to the more advanced people of what is actually the original future and they fall into the dark ages themselves and end up destroying the earth. Meanwhile our main character comes back to present time and everything is as he remembers it and he assumes he was actually successful. In 300 years the world becomes as advanced as the people in what was actually the original future and never fall into the dark ages a 2nd time in the future or destroying the earth

You're kinda describing the plot of the Butterfly Effect there GoDM1N.

Haven't seen it. I hear its bad however, I must fail

[VoltySquirrel]

Maybe after running endless experiments he should end up finding out that no matter what he does, he will go back in time, it isn't something he can control. He goes back and changes the future but not in the way you mentioned above. Instead of making it better he makes it worse because he wasn't suppose to use the time machine. People from the future were suppose to come back and take him to the past instead. From there he starts mucking about, causes the dark ages, and assumes he failed. The people from the future assume all is lost and this causes chaos to the more advanced people of what is actually the original future and they fall into the dark ages themselves and end up destroying the earth. Meanwhile our main character comes back to present time and everything is as he remembers it and he assumes he was actually successful. In 300 years the world becomes as advanced as the people in what was actually the original future and never fall into the dark ages a 2nd time in the future or destroying the earth

You're kinda describing the plot of the Butterfly Effect there GoDM1N.

Haven't seen it. I hear its bad however, I must fail

The basic story itself is fine, but it clearly suffers from a case of try-hardness.

[GoDM1N]

The basic story itself is fine, but it clearly suffers from a case of try-hardness.

Thats all we need, try hard story writers. What is becoming of this community

[Mad Anthony]

I miss Lost.